after catching most of cheche lazaro’s Dalawang Mukha ng Hustisya the other night, napaisip naman ako. impossible not to be touched by the webb family’s stories and how they’ve never let up on loving, caring for, and visiting hubert in jail and believing in, swearing to, his innocence. what if he IS innocent?
of course nakakadurog din naman ng puso ang nangyari sa vizconde mother and daughters. impossible not to sympathize with the aggrieved husband and father and to understand why he agonizes over the webbs’ continuing appeal for reconsideration — if hubert et al are innocent, then who violated and massacred his loved ones, and why are they walking free?
so i was googling the case all day yesterday to refresh my memory and here are some worthy links:
pinoyexchange.com forum december 30 1999 to january 8, 2000 :
The Vizconde Verdict
The Manila Times’ 2005 Special Report :
Questions linger in Vizconde case, Part I
Huberts main defense: ‘I was in California’ Part II
solita “winnie” monsod’s 2007 Inquirer column :
Hope for Hubert Webb
Sunday Inquirer Magazine’s 2008 feature :
The Vizconde Case
The Manila Times april 2010 report :
High Court reopens Vizconde massacre case
ramon tulfo’s april 2010 Inquirer column:
I Swear on Hubert Webb’s innocence
ramon tulfo’s may 2010 Bandera column :
Bakit ako atat na atat sa Vizconde Massacre?
winnie monsod’s june 2010 Inquirer column :
The case of the missing semen sample
cesar m. de los reyes’s letter to the editor, response to winnie :
Deprived of chance to prove innocence
alex magno’s july 2010 philippine star column :
DNA
pinoyexchange.com forum in reaction to cheche’s docu : The Vizconde Massacre: Do you believe that Hubert Webb is guilty?
also i found two links with information new to me. the first from a pdf doc. “A Son, a Father and a Terrible Night” by Tamara de Guzman (google “When I first followed this crime, I believed Hubert Webb was guilty…”) where Freddie Webb is quoted as saying:
Partly because of my being in politics, my son got caught in the middle,” he finally said. “There were Indian nationals who were developing drugs in Las Piñas City, They were caught by the NBI (National Bureau of Investigation) and were locked up. I accidentally discovered a plan to free them and I exposed it. The investigation led back to their financier who has connections high up in the government. They got back at me through Hubert.
which was never reported by mainstream media (if memory serves), but was confirmed seconded by a commenter on ellen tordesilla’s blog:
Mike – February 12, 2010 1:27 am
With regards to Hubert Webb, I don’t think he is guilty of the crime (Vizconde massacre). Napaginitan si Senator Webb ng NBI coz pinakialaman niya yung kaso ng mga Indian drug traders who were in the custody of the NBI then and pinatakas. I think there were 12 of them Indian nationals. It was then Rep. Webb who asked for the investigation of the incident.
the second link is more recent. a feb 2010 gmanews.tv report of senators probed for unethical/questionable conduct has this interesting detail:
In 1996, during the 10th Congress, Senator Freddie Webb was investigated for alleged abuse of authority and probable violation of laws in the employment of his son Hubert Webb in the Senate Electoral Tribunal.
This was after Webb claimed that his son, a suspect in the celebrated Vizconde massacre, was in the United States from March 9, 1991 to October 28, 1992 when his daily time record showed that he went to work, from 9 am to 6 pm.
The younger Webb was found guilty of the murder.
so. senator webb was not found guilty. i suppose it was punishment enough that his son was found guilty in the vizconde case? the senator must have soooo regretted falsifying time records (okay, if in fact he did), lalo na if these time records were known to the prosecution and the judge who rejected all evidence that hubert was out of the country.
just the same. i find it strange that the court found alfaro, biong, his mistress, and the two webb housemaids more credible than the u.s. state department, immigration, the fbi, etc. kasi daw the latter’s documents could have easily been faked. really? all of them? wasn’t it much much easier to bribe the so-called witnesses into concocting that wild story of drugs, sex, and crime?
what i remember most about the 2000 verdict was that it was more sensational than surprising. thanks to two carlos caparas films — The Vizconde Massacre: God Help Us! in 1993 starring kris aquino as carmela, and The Untold Story: Vizconde Massacre Two – May The Lord Be With Us in 1994 starring vina morales — the public was just oh-so-primed to see hubert hang.
Where is that crazy judge Amelita Tolentino now?
From a column by the late Teddy Benigno, dated Sept 12, 2001.
“We thought we had heard the last of that irascible and intemperate woman, Amelita Tolentino, a Regional Trial Court judge whose temper in a courtroom had the choler and character of a runaway cyclone. Remember her?…Well, Judge Tolentino has just been appointed to the Court of Appeals at the eloquent instance of the Judicial and Bar Council, a body with the probity of a bent crowbar.
“Now in an open letter published just days ago in several metropolitan broadsheets, lawyer Mario E. Ongkiko, Rene A.V. Saguisag, Florente Arceo-Bautista and Jose Luis V. Agcaoili have taken aim at the Court of Appeals appointment of Judge Tolentino – and of course drawn blood. Gahd, the gall of this woman! The four lawyers aver that “unable to moderate her ambitions, evincing conduct unbecoming, she applied for a seat in the Supreme Court, directly, in her letter dated November 15, 2000 addressed to the JBC!” And then again, the press blurbs on her appointment said Tolentino passed the 1968 bar exams with a rating of 91.5 percent. The truth? She only got a grade of 77.5 percent, according to the quartet of lawyers who defended Hubert Webb.
“How did Judge Amelita Tolentino get her Court of Appeals seat? According to the four aforementioned lawyers, she is a townswoman (Lubao) of President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo who may not have known about the “horror stories” stored mid-stream in her judicial career. It is also mentioned that Rep. Peter Cayetano “now sits in the JBC where his father, Sen. Renato Cayetano, used to.”
I just checked the CA website and she’s still there. But I couldn’t find any reference to which division she belongs to.
buencaminYoo!hoo! crazy judge indeed ;) no doubt the case would not have prospered so in the court of a sane one
Angie,
going thru the threads of opinion in the above links had lead me to believed that Hubert seems to be innocent. But his only defense of being in the US is a weak alibi, specially if you presented a fake document. I have a close relative, who goes in and out of US during the past 10 years, had her passports stamped by our BI according to her intended dates (to validate her greencard) if you know somebody at the NAIA. From my experience from US immigration exits, they dont stamp your departure date. The departure list is based on the airline’s manifesto which I believe can also be manipulated by the agency. What more if you’r the son of a well-known celebrity and govt official like Sen.Freddie Webb. On the other hand, if the DNA test was indeed taken but not presented for evidence, there is a big PROBABILITY that Hubert can be exonerated from the crime, if SC will rule on his favor as a mis-trial.
I dont have any sympathy to this young Webb and I dont believe that hes innocent… and besides hes free to go in and out of the the jail, he even attend parties, family gatherings and disco anytime he wish, just like jalosjos.
I never thought that he was innocent but I think all Filipinos should vent their rage at the NBI. Its so crawling with cockroaches. Its almost a joke. Mexican police have better results than this.
he doesn’t go in and out of jail. he won’t even go out to see the dentist or the doctor because he doesn’t want to leave the jail if he still has to come back. he wants to leave a free man.
I have a question….
I just wanna know why they killed the vizconde family? What were the killer’s motives? is it just a trip or what?
Thank you!
and what was the statement of Jessica Alfaro about the crime? was she really telling the truth that time?
And i just wanna add…..
May napansin ako about this crime. lahat ng suspect ay galing sa maiimpluwensyang pamilya. parang may foul play. :( so sad about our system.
THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.
in all honesty … i have seen the young webb in jail and still is protected and acts like he is the “MAN” so why does he wants to be “free” when in fact he is already free… yon nga lang he cannot leave the country but then again maybe he can ….
kawawa naman tayong mga pinoy…
where is justice and to whom must justice be given
please understand that we have given everything required to prove that hubert was in the U.S. when the crime occured.You name it, we gave it.
1. record of departure including ticket, ticket receipt,(with accompanying testimony from raja tours owner Bibay Nolasco), airline manifest (with accompanying testimony from a northwest airline official), passport with departure stamp from the Bureau of Immigration
2. record of entry which includes an F.B.I. report, a note verbal issued by the U.S. government signed by Secretary of State Madeline Albright stating that Hubert Webb was in the U.S. testified to by no less than both foriegn secretary Domingo Siazon and Consul General Leo Herrera Lim
3. records of his stay which includes: Videos – one in Disneyland (testified to by a complete stranger who saw Freddie Webb and decided to video him), one at Lake Tahoe and another at a cousins wedding wedding ceremony Records of employment in the form of several encashed checks in his name Hubert Jeffrrey Webb before and after the crime California Drivers License aquired during his stay, certified by the Department of Motor Vehicles California Dozens of eyewitness accounts all of which were excecuted by upstanding members of society all of which have much to lose had they perjured themselves in court, the most prominent of all being Entertainer Gary Valenciano. Supreme court justice Antonio Carpio also testified that he knew that Hubert was in the U.S, based on his conversations with my father who was in the U.S. right before the time of the incident.
4. records of his departure which includes again the certification from the U.S. stating his date of departure, airline manifest testified to by an authority from the Philippine Airlines, Passport showing entry into the Philippines We have givem everything humanly possible to prove he was in the United States four months before and fifteen months after the massacre occured. He only has one record of ever going to the U.S.A and it was only during the period we claim he was there.
Pease take note that:NOT A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE WE PRESENTED WAS EVER REFUTED OR PROVEN TO BE FALSE BY THE PROSECUTION. THEY COULD HAVE VERY EASILY ASKED THE UNITED STATES IF THE DOCUMENTS WE PRESENTED WERE FAKE BUT THEY DIDN’T. WHY? BECAUSE THEY KNEW OUR DOCUMENTS WERE REAL.THEY COULD HAVE EASILY CAUGHT HUBERT IF THEY ALLOWED DNA TESTING FROM THE BEGINNING BUT THEY OBJECTED TO IT. WHY? BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT IT WASN’T HUBERT’S SPERM BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT HE WAS IN THE UNITED STATES.
We have waited fifteen long years for some people to start believing. Due to a judge and prosecution without any concience, my brother has suffered much for a crime he very clearly did not do. All we pray is that he be set free so that he can pick up the pieces and start to live what he has left of his life. Let truth prevail.
If you try to evade justice anywhere other than in the Philippines. You won’t be able to get away with it ! ! Always put that inside your brain ! ! ! The crimes commited by high prominent people can always sweep dirt under the carpet ! !
So I was curious about this case and did some research and I think I just found out who really did it. And yes, I believe Hubert and all the suspects presented back in 1995 are all innocent as well. The #1 suspect should be none other than Jessica Alfaro herself. I have studied her profile and it makes sense, she is a cunning and manipulative sociopath. I’ve watch her interviews and appearances on TV. She did it all for attention. Her motive of killing Carmela is out of jealousy. She was jealous of her popularity and her beauty. Her testimonies were fake, BUT if you would analyze her statement, you will realize she is very much capable of killing and being the one responsible for it. First, the mother of Carmela didn’t allow male visitors. So that night, Jessica came by alone wanting to talk to Carmela and since the mother just saw she’s a girl, she felt safe and relaxed. She then went to the room of Carmela and did her thing. There was no rape that happened. She just made it look like there was a penetration and sexual assault that happened, but in reality, there is none. The little sister came in the room and saw what she did to carmela so she stabbed her too. Then she killed the mother after. She stabbed her victims too many times, which clearly is not something done by killer who has already killed before. It was a crime of passion.
The killer wants attention. Typical sociopath profile. The murder happened 1991, she came out after 4 years saying she needs protection because someone told her at a disco that she’ll be dead if she said anything. But she’s been silent for years. Wouldn’t it be logical for her to just have stayed silent and not go to the NBI if there was really a threat to silence her? Think about it? Now, being the sociopath that she is, she is hungry for attention. She knew that if she is going to come out as a star witness and give out names that are not from prominent families, it will all be trashed. But since she gave out big names involved in the case, she knew it is going to be a sensation.
She got what she wanted. She even had a body guard who ended up dying after 3 years of telling the media, suspecting she is fake. The log name on the gym is “Jun”. It is the person who killed the ex-NBI agent/bodyguard. She could have worn a disguise knowing her built looks like of a man anyway. And notice that the name JUN starts with “J”? This person can single handedly kill 3 women with the kind of body built she has.
Seriously, all this time that everyone was looking for the real suspect, it has been there all along. She is good. She showed up to be an “eye witness” so no one would think she is actually the #1 suspect of the crime.
My suggestion, create a hunt for Jessica Alfaro because she dangerous as fuck. Hell hath no fury than a jealous sociopath.
I have read a lot about this case and I believe that Webb is innocent. Judge Tolintino should be shot!
Oh yeah ! ! What about R J Revilla and Ramona Revilla ? ? Are they innocent Too ? ? Can you handle to answer this question ? ?
I heard hubert has a twin brother who looks like him. could it be a mistaken identity or switching of the real person who was in the US???
I’m really curious about this case.
I watched CheChe Lazaro’s “Dalawang Mukha ng Hustisya.
I don’t know what to believe in.
For Hubert’s family, everytime they say that he is innocent.
Nasa isip ko,syempre pamilya niya yon.They will depend him.
But,I’am also wondering, how they can say that with conviction.
Because,if someone in my family got involved in a crime like that,I dont think I can say it the way they did. Especially if he/she is really guilty.
So,I ponder again, what if ,he is really innocent.?
On the other side.There is a main withess.
If he is really innocent.How can she concocted her testimonies?
Doesn’t she have the heart to let someone in jail for years when she knew all along that the person is innocent.
Or is she just saying the truth?
Moroever,there is Mr. Vizconde.Even if you are just watching.You could feel his suffering.Who wouldn’t.He had lost all his family in a heinous crime.
So what would prevail?
Hubert families’ evidence or Alfaro’s testimony alone?
No, it shouldn’t be “The Vizconde Massacre: Do you believe that Hubert Webb is guilty?” The right question to ask is, “The Vizconde Massacre: Do you believe that Hubert Webb is innocent?” But then, it isn’t a matter of wether we believe so or not. At the end of the day, or in this case, after almost TWO DECADES, it’s only the court that can decide his fate. Justicce seems compromised already with the way our government treats this case. Imagine, the State losing a very important evidence. HOW CONVINIENT for Hubert Webb.
Well, to continue the argument, and borrowing togih’s line in his/hers comment, “So what would prevail?
Hubert families’ evidence or Alfaro’s testimony alone?”
I guess, what we should ask is:
So what would prevail?
Hubert family’s influence and money or Alfaro’s testimony alone?
So sad that Alfaro woman’s testimony is shot. I believe that the testimony has a ring of truth in the sequence but its not hers. She parroted it. This is one of the big gaping holes.
A liar using someone’s truth.
correction:
*his/her comment
Hubert’s being in jail for fifteen years is proof that there is something definitely wrong with the system. Does it really take 15 years to find out if someone was in the States or not?
Judge Tolentino’s putting more weight on the testimony of Jessica Alfaro over Gary V’s and Supreme Court Justice Antonio Carpio’s testimonies are highly questionable.
Should Gary Valenciano and Justice Carpio be sent to jail as well for lying as Judge Tolentino’s verdict suggests?
Sometimes the problem with most people is that they would rather beleive someone else than their own eyes.
Hubert was shown in the States on three separate occations. One in Disneyland with Freddie Webb, one in Lake Tahoe in the snow, and one at our cousins wedding in California. All taken during the time we claimed he was there. He only went to the U.S. once in his whole life.
Oh yeah ! How did he get a job there ? He’s not an immigrant or U.S. Citizen. Is everybody allowed from other visitors from other Countries visiting the U.S as tourist are eligible to qualify for any employment ?
That’s not enough to treat the Judge and other Investigators in the case to be ” Stupid “. Home Videos can be tampered.
He only went to the U.S. once ? ? That’s a credible coincidence ! ! Why can’t you make it twice , three times or more ? ?
What about the Pay Stubs from Hubert’s Employers from California ? ? What about all his income Tax claim documents from the U.S. Government and other copies ? ? Doesn’t he pay for Income Tax ? What about additional deduction from his U.S. Employers Pay Stubs ? ? Not only he’s wanted for murder. What about his Tax Evation case from the U.S.? ?
Does Hubert Webb have any copies of any surveillance Camera from all the places that he’s been to in the U.S. ? Example : Bank of the United States ? Or Surveillance Camera shots from any Bank Machine ? ? Or any Public Places that he’s been into ?
What about Credit Cards ? Did he used American Express or Gold or Platinum VISA to purchase an Airline Ticket ? What about the Disneyland trip ? Did he use his VISA Card ? ? or probably he paid U.S. Cash. Did he kept his Disneyland entrance Ticket for future reference ? ?
Four years is long enough to falsify any illegal Documents. Until one of the confessed Accomplice finally surfaced and she knows all the Suspects personally. And two more additional Suspects has already fled the Country and considered themselves Fugitives. Living under a different identity.
Fifteen long years is a great investment ! ! Lots and lots of Money saved up to feed crowded Families of High Supreme Court Employees and Staff !!
He’s invited to join in any social gatherings and other fundraising charities as long as he can pay for their personal and financial assets.
@leslie
If we had influence and power, my brother would not have been in jail for fifteen long years for a crime he did not commit. Di ba?
Yes ! You do have influence and Power ! ! Always was ! Always Will ! !
Read the testimonies. The prosecution’s case are weak. At first, I also believed Hubert Webb was guilty, but after the acquittal and read the testimonies of both parties (mind you, it’s very long so you have to be patient to read), I believe now that he is innocent.
@leslie fareth
you’ve stated “So what would prevail? Hubert family’s influence and money or Alfaro’s testimony alone?”… Hubert has been in jail for fifteen years, if the Webbs have used the “influence and money” (which you have insinuated that they have), then Hubert would not have been in jail even for a day.
Between Alfaro’s horseshit testimony and the mountain of paperwork by the Webb, I’d say the decision should favor the Webbs.
The Webbs really did their homework. They were prepared. UIt really was a contest of tightness. Hubert should not have gone to jail to begin with at the rate that case was unraveling in the 90’s.
Im not saying he is innocent. Im saying your NBI is run by clowns.
i feel sorry for hubert webb… if he’s really innocent… that’s is by far the cruelest thing to do to person. to deprive him to live. i hope the judge who’s going to take this case have an open/crtical mind… hindi yung mahilig manood ng soap opera… this time, look at the evidences… you’ve done enough damage to hubert and the rest of the accused.
@Fritz:
If Hubert is really innocent, why did Jessica say all those things?
And why his other co-accused can’t testify that he was not really there at the time of the crime?
Moreover, why did the evidences had been rejected?
in a heinous crime like the Vizconde massacre where it involves a gang rape, the burden of proof lies on the prosecution. If the defense cannot destroy beyond the reasonable doubt the testimony of Jessica Alfaro, who came out to risk her life against sons of rich and influencial people, then the court must stand on the weight of the evidence. The DNA test maybe rejected since it is a gang rape and may not have probative value. Simple as that, IMHO.
i guess if they still tried to use the DNA some one of the suspect will be forced to face his judgement since DNA still have a result.. this is not abt hubert alone thats why it is called “gang rape” they let the prosecution move for other evidnce to point out all the accused.
@ joji
isnt it the opposite?
isnt the job of the prosecution to over come all reasonable doubt?
@gabbyd :=); if my memory serves me right,in my public debate/speaking 101, it is logical that the affirmative side who alleges the premise of guilty beyond reasonable doubt must be overcome by the opposing side which is the accused and not the prosecutor.
prosecution overcomes reasonable doubt.
defense injects reasonable doubt.
[“The prosecution must overcome the constitutional presumption of innocence by proof beyond reasonable doubt; otherwise, the acquittal of the accused is ineluctably demanded.“]
http://www.ustcivillaw.com/Jurisprudence/1994/gr_110778_1994.php
@baycas:
So, what your implying is, he is really guilty.
Isn’t it?
“The DNA test maybe rejected since it is a gang rape and may not have probative value.”-jojie umali
My sympathy is with Fritz who’s suffering with the family, but, I wonder if he’s disagreeing with what jojie said.
@togih,
no implication whatsoever.
just straightening things out re: reasonable doubt. it must be considered vis-a-vis presumption of innocence of an accused.
what was amelita tolentino’s basis for disallowing the DNA test during the time that the sample was still available for testing?
why was the sample not preserved and stored securely given that the defense had repeatedly asked for a test?
what was the basis for accepting jessica alfaro’s testimony?
what made jessica alfaro more credible than the witnesses for the defense?
were the evidences submitted by the defense ever proven to be fake/bogus/tampered/fabricated?
how was hubert webb sentenced when there are still so many questions?
reasonable doubt must be clearly absent when pronouncing the accused as guilty. any strand of doubt cast upon a person’s guilt does not warrant a sentence…
enlighten me.
it’s scary because this can happen to any of us. and we can’t protect ourselves because the mere testimony of another jessica alfaro will be believed by the court over hard evidence we may produce without even subjecting them to verification.
are those who people the philippine courts stupid? or do they just play stupid in favor of stuffed wallets? or what?
I agree. Anyone can be a “witness” and just give a fake testimony. I was also one of the Filipinos who believed that Hubert Webb was guildlty but after reading the SC verdict and dissents of the judges, I now believe he is innocent.
I agree. Anyone can be a “witness” and just give a fake testimony. I was also one of the Filipinos who believed that Hubert Webb was guildlty but after reading the SC verdict and dissents of the judges, I now believe he is not guilty.
To the person who wrote this:
let him stay in jail on October 21st, 2010 at 12:10 am
I dont have any sympathy to this young Webb and I dont believe that hes innocent… and besides hes free to go in and out of the the jail, he even attend parties, family gatherings and disco anytime he wish, just like jalosjos.
>>I was with him for more than a year and he never visited me at home…because he can’t..and if he can..he doesn’t want to because knowing that he would just go back to jail makes him depressed
>>the defense presented all pieces of evidence and what did the judge say? — senator webb human smuggled hubert to the Phil, hubert committed the crime then senator webb human smuggled him back to the US… – what is the basis? no evidence..no one to back up that claim..nothing. It’s just something that came out of her mouth to solidify their claim
“The prosecution must overcome the constitutional presumption of innocence by proof beyond reasonable doubt; otherwise, the acquittal of the accused is ineluctably demanded.”
the justice system asks to establish NO reasonable doubt that a person is guilty, not to prove him innocent. Therefore, everything should be done to refute that claim of innocence until there is no longer doubt that he is indeed guilty of the crime.
In this case, reasonable doubt was not established. All the claims that papers can be fabricated, videos can be edited, people can be smuggled in and out of the country, were all suppositions. They were not able to prove, wait, they did not even try to prove those suppositions. He was robbed of the opportunity to prove his innocence. All they did was believe a (supposedly credible) witness testimony. To say that a person is guilty because of what “he could have done” is plain and simple ignorance.
But what irks me the most, is the supposition the one should be guilty just because he is a politician, or a son of. No questions asked, he is the son of Freddie Webb, ergo, he is guilty.
Where is jessica alfaro now?
i havent heard from all the others who were also convicted of the crime. why are they silent about this? are they really guilty as charged? are they also appealing to the supreme court?
My heart grieves for both parties. In this situation, we can say “Only God knows the truth.” Let’s pray that the truth comes out soon.
jane ;) good question. i think they’re all waiting to see what happens to hubert’s appeal. even at the trial, they were represented by different lawyers. the chismis was, some of them didn’t even really know each other, or they weren’t really barkada.
for me hubert webb is innocent. the court made a very bad decision the moment they ignored the official documents from USA. they believed on a drug addict instead. so the girl who is a drug addict tells the truth rather than the officials of USA? then this will be a very good example of injustice in our state. the person who has a more negative credibility is the one who people believed. no innocent man will be in in jail if the people didnt let it happen. the moment the name hubert webb was out everyone thought he was guilty. we should open our eyes and look properly if they have all the evidence to put some one in jail. there are a lot of innocent man in jail. why dont we start to change now? let an innocent man free.FREE HUBERT WEBB.it can be a good start. BTW if you have really done some research those who are accused are not friends. it was all what we call”set up”.
I think the Supreme court should agree that DNA should be tested and if semen sample is lost — it should favour the accused.
The question of whether it is admissible since it is a gang-rape — is a question of fact NOT a question of law. A question of fact should be disputed in the lower court, and the question of law should be decided by the Supreme court.
For me, the decision should be a re-trial — which is very unlikely. Then if there’s another trial, the prosecution should argue that DNA should not be used on the first place because semen is contaminated, whether it is lost or not. This is a question of fact, and this should be argued in lower court.
—
Just like many Filipinos at the time of verdict, I thought Hubert was guilty, but now he may be not be innocent but the reasonable doubt is hanging. CLP is a little bit biased towards the Webb, IMO.
Yeah, and I want to ask again what I’ve read: For all the sympathies to Mr Vizconde, why is he so sure that Hubert did this?
ditto
—
jane_i on November 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am
i havent heard from all the others who were also convicted of the crime. why are they silent about this? are they really guilty as charged? are they also appealing to the supreme court?
—
@True :-); In an interview by mr. Clavio of GMA-7, Mr. Vizconde was so sure of Hubert because his daughter has told him that she has rejected this guy and even before the results of the investigation on the pre-trial, his name came out in a dream where Mr. Vizconde did not even have a clue as to who he was. Maybe it was coincidental, but it was purely providential that the suspect was the same guy.
If the other co-accused were not friends, the more they should complain and proved their innocence. but the saying is silence means yes. Also, Ventura and Filart went hiding, what for if they are not guilty? I sympathize with the Webb, but reasonable doubt of innocence is wanting.
I firmly believe there may be other witnesses to this crime. (Just my own theory) But unfortunately one of them may have been murdered in December of 1992 and the suspects were Paranaque Police headed by Mr Biong. As we all know, you cannot get a dead man’s testimony.
If only the courts will further investigate the role of Mr. Biong and his activities from the time immediately after the Vizconde massacre until December 1992 then maybe. . . .
What is the motive of Jessica? Why the prosecution can not dispute her testimony or find loophole into it if she is not in the crime seen.
i will admit that this case is very interesting, one that should go to the books and taught in law schools all over the world. how can anyone be convicted of a crime replete with questions i do not understand, how such a decision can generate so much emotion i can relate with.
how a movie, even two, can be allowed to screen even before any form of verdict can be released is beyond my comprehension. those two movies definitely laid down the basis for the subsequent conviction of hubert webb and all other accused in the crime.
the silence of the others does not mean they are accepting the judgement of guilty, it simply means they are hitching their fate on the result of webb’s appeal, because simply put, if hubert is acquitted, then they cannot be co-guilty because the basis of the judgement stems from the accusation that they did it all together, and if one, regarded by accusations as the ringleadeer, is innocent then there must be reasonable evidence that the others a innocent too.
to say that the supreme court will retry the case is false. the supreme court only decides on rules of law, and the petition here is that the rules on criminal conviction have not been followed (that the DNA evidence should be allowed, that documents from reputable institutions and individuals have been ignored etc…)
there may only be two outcomes here – the sc will uphold the ca verdict of guilty or the sc will approve with the petitions of webb and grant him reprieve. all others are sentimental opinions.
One thing i am sure of, the then Congressman made a mistake of hiring his Son (Hubert) as a consultant for his office (Nepotism), which is one of the prosecution’s contention. I think this added to the complications that the case is having.
The fault of the Judiciary with this case is that the two courts(RTC and CA), which heard the case is that the Judges did not put, even into consideration, the documentary testimony of the US FBI and the US State Department.
Which leads me to a few questions (Assuming that Hubert was guilty);
1. Who the hell are the Webbs for the US State Dept. to extend them a document saying he was in the US during the time of the crime? (if indeed Hubert was here in the Philippines) Are the Webbs that important to the US Gov’t for them to lie about Hubert’s where-abouts?
2. The State Dept and the FBI are two independent Federal Agencies often times clash and don’t get along well with each-other. Why would the FBI do the same for the Webbs, what the State Dept did? Again, Are the Webbs important to the US Gov’t at that time?
Lastly (Assuming that Hubert was Innocent)
1. Did the then Congressman trample on someone so powerful that the Judiciary (RTC & CA) was influenced during that time?
2. Why can’t the then NBI Director Fred Lim help in the Webbs defense, since it was his office who requested the Documents from the FBI and State Dept.?
I feel that these last questions is key to understanding (not finding the truth, just knowing the facts surrounding the case) why Hubert is being implicated (if he was innocent) to this crime.
@Mike-:-)Assuming that the documentary testimonies provided by the US agencies were not issued in bad faith, meaning they were not intended to cover up an alibi,are these testimonies legally strong to invalidate the primary testimonies of Jessica, the housemaids, the security guards and the participation of a local police agent (who is known to the suspects) to destroy material evidences?? Both the lower courts have already affirmed the supremacy of the human motive to commit the crime. As a court of last resort, the sc magistrates will weigh the legal strenght of these conflicting testimonies. It is interesting to watch this case because personally, I want our judicial system be overhauled to be more democratic and I believe adopting the Grand/Trial jury will be the best mechanism to root out “hoodlums in robe” and perhaps reduced corruption in our govt.
@Mike, :), ain’t it that Freddie Webb was a Marcos loyalist and Fred Lim a Laban man at that time? just asking, heheh.
joji,
you made me smile by your proposal to convert to Grand/Trial jury, but I agree. it is easier indeed to bribe one person (a judge)than to bribe 12 people (a grand jury), :).
well i guess that Webb family need to stop defending Hubert Webb since he is actually guilty in the crime. Money cant make the world go round and i hope that even the police in the jail should be tight in their security, dont let the prisoner goes out of the jail if they were already sentenced, like jalosjos.my friend(supervisor)even saw him playing a billiard in Subic.
@Joji :D i understand your position on the fact Eyewitness Testimonial evidences has more weight over documentary evidence. But fact is Gary V. gave his Testimony as well as the then Atty. Antonio Carpio(who has inhibited himself from the case from the very beginning) , but was not given weight by the two courts. Regardless of background or affinity anyone who gives his/her testimony should be given merit add to that corroboration from the Two US Federal Agencies.
For Hubert’s Guilt: Eyewitness testimony = 1 up,
For Hubert’s Innocence eyewitness testimony + documentary evidence = 2 up
But in this case, it equated to 0
I do agree that our judiciary needs a major, major overhaul. I am too is in favor of Jury System.
One Thing is certain, this is a Very Big Brouhaha that the SC is tasked to clear out. And i believe the SC will rule on this matter based on what the Law says, not just on how they interpret it, because they are in a Catch-22 situation.
With this one case, we (the tax-payers) are getting our money’s worth from the way the SC Justices are working and worrying.
BTW
Hats off to pinky webb, she has kept her dignity all these years by not commenting on any of her Radio Programs any of her views and opinions regarding the matter.
@ ELLE :)
The Webbs are doing this simple because, Blood is thicker that water. Specially if you believe your kin’s innocence.
And only firsthand information is accepted in any court of law :D
Off-topic (my apologies):
Convicted Child rapist and Former Congressman Romeo Jalosjos Sr. has a Dead-ringer for a brother Dominador. They are often mistaken to be twins.
@Mike-:) Gary V.’s and Atty. Carpio’s testimonies covered a certain long period of time but did not specify that on the date of crime or before the day after the crime, they were physically present with Hubert and therefore, be granted the benefit of the doubt. Also, the court did not give weight to their testimonies because they were given after several years after the crime and memory cannot be relied if they were suppositions of time instead of actual event that you have encountered distinctly as Jessica’s testimonies.
I was very young when the news first broke and I clearly remember that public sentiment was against the Webbs. The whole trial became a rich/powerful vs the poor. That was how it was played out.
Jessica Alfaro’s testimony is the most important thing the prosecution has. But like others, I question how her testimony is considered relevant and truthful? It’s so easy to lie. What are the safeguards that guarantee that she is telling the truth. Something about this woman strikes me odd… Her mannerisms, based on the footage that I have seen, seem so laid back and casual where she was testifying for a gruesome crime against powerful people.
I have never been to the US but to claim that you can go in and out of the US without going through immigration and having your passport stamped is ridiculous. The Webbs may be known here but the scope of US politics is more than that. Our politicians are just ants compared to the giants in that government. Let’s not kid ourselves of the reality that we face. What was the US interest at that time? The US Bases? Frankly I think they were eager to get out of there without having to look like they ‘gave up’ or are ‘useless’.
Regardless there are a lot of strange things in this case that require more logical scrutiny as opposed to public sentiment.
Just wondering how and what kind of supporting evidence that Gary V can bring to the table. This is because Gary V is a credible witness for me. Lots of reports claiming support that he gives the innocence of Hubert. Just asking, ano ba talaga sinabi ni Gary V? Ano ba report ni Gary V? What made Gary V. believe in Hubert’s innocence? Please enlighten me mam.
i am an avid fan of all the csi franchises, law and order,bones u.s. drama series which uses dna as a method of solving crimes. bones even get dna from skeletal bones and compare it to the suspect’s. why not make use of dna evidence to prove once and for all the innocence of hubert webb and company. in the first place, why was it never used during the investigation and trial of hubert webb.
After watching 2 mukhang ng hustiya, I proved that something was really wrong in our judicial system.I for one, got interested in Vizconde massacre, I have watched the 2 movies which topbilled by Kris Aquino and Vina Morales but it is so sad to think the two movies are pro-vizconde which really made people hate the Webb’s family. After, doing so many googles on the issue, somehow, I have realized Webb can be innocent. Yes, truly the docu by Che-che could be one sided, but it is only fair that this time we should also look at the other side which is the webb’s, it is fair enough for the Webb to ask the re-opening of the case after 15 years, they never spoke about it, they sacrificed so much and and they supported each other. I admire Webb’s family as they give comfort and support to Hubert. They have set a good example of a family na walang iwanan. Hubert is lucky enough to have his family. As for Alfaro, I know she lied. SHe did it all for money. Nobody has written anyhting about Mrs. Vizconde, if she had something to do why the crime happened. what about the relatives?they were never questioned. I am just wondering….
The truth can only be determined when both sides of the story are told. Here are the two court of Appeals decisions. Read these before you’re taken hook line and sinker.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44386727/Court-of-Appeals-GR-CR-HC-0336-2007-Decision
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44386727/Court-of-Appeals-GR-CR-HC-0336-2007-Decision
Palagay ko may kakagawan si Manny Villar dito kasi taga Las Pinas sya ta malapit lang ang Las Pinas sa Paranaque.
matagal ko nang sinusubaybayan to at marami nakong napansin na bagay na kahit sa anong artikulo sa media eh wala pa kong nababasa. bakit walang nagtatanong sa mga tanong na ito?
ako naniniwala din na inosente si webb sa krimen na ito. kung papairalin natin e lohica at hindi emosyon, walang ibang konklusyon kang maiisip kundi ang pagka inosente ni webb.
una sa lahat para patunayan ito eh ang nilagdaan na dokumento ng secretary of state ng america. di naman siguro lalagdaan ng napaka importanting taong ito sa mundo ang isang bagay na hindi mainam na inimbistiga muna ng mga ahensya ng estados unidos. nakakahiya naman ata sa america ang ganyan kung simpleng konpirmasyon lang ng isang taong di naman ganon ka importante sa mundo eh di nila ma beripika.
kahit pinoy ako eh sa usaping ito eh mas maniniwala ako sa estados unidos para sa mas akuradong basehan particular na ang fbi kasya sa mga pungpong na alagad natin sa nbi lalo na ng kapulisan naten.
nakita nyo ba paano magsalita si mison? pano naging derektor ang ganong tao? eh yung judge naman na si tolen, bakit ayaw nya tanggapin ang dna bilang ebidensya eh pede naman natin pa test ito sa ibang bansa kung wala pa tayong teknolohiyang ganito sa pinas. eh kahit sabihin pa nila na baka kontaminado ito, edi kahit na at least sinubukan muna nila bago i asuma na di na pede ang sample. kahit pa isipin nila na tampered ang ebidensya, pano nila malalaman na tamepred nga kung di nila tinest muna. tanga naman ng judge diba walang common sense. gusto lang ma promote
ang pinaka mabigat eh mga testigo! grabe pare unahin natin si gabiola katulong. sabi nya nakita nya sa misomng araw ng krimen si webb na balisa at nilabhan nya ang damit nitong me maraming dugo. fresh blood pa daw. teka eh ilang minuto lang eh tuyo na ang dugo ah. pano pa magiging fresh ang dugo makalipas ang ilang oras. pero di ito ang mabigat na komon sense dito. napaka talino naman ng katulong na ito at napaka talas ng memorya! daig pa si einstein ang utak ha. mantakin nyo pagkalipas ng mahigit apat na taon eh tanda nya ang nilabhan nya sa isang partikular na petsa? e ako nga di ko na alam kung anong sinuot at nilabhan ko last week eh. kayo alam nyo?
si alfaro? mukha palang nong pokpok at adik na yon di na credible. tignan nyo ASSET sya ng nbi sabi sa mga artikulo. sya ay snitch o isang impormante ng ahensya sa mga kamukha niyang adik. ibig sabihin affiliated sya sa nbi! dun palang dapat di na sya pedeng witness kasi tuta sya ng nbi. saka adik yon mga pre. sinabi nya mismo na bangag sya ng gabing yon. pede pag asahan ang salaysay ng isang bangag na witness.
yung pokpok ni biong. daig pa nya si sherlock holmes sa pagiimbistiga. lahat nakita nya at narinig. nagmamajong daw si biong at me nakuhang tawag. umupo si babae pero na curious at tumayo. me narinig. me nakita etc etc. ulitin ko 4 yrs na nakalipas mga tyong. mga genious mga witness na to tatalas ng memory. galit lang ang babaeng pokpok kaya pinahamak nya si biong. mas normal na nangyayari ang ganitong eksena sa magkalaguyo na nagsisiraan kaysa sa maging genious. saka bakit di bumaliktad si biong hangga ngayon. hmmm siguro dapat subaybayan si biong baka ngayon nya lalaspagin ang payout nya sa 12 years nyang silensyo. kung at kung!
yung dalawang secu din genious din ano kasi alam nila sa mismong araw ng krimen na nakita nila ang grupo. eh wala palang silbe mga secu na yon eh. madaling araw na nagpapapasok pa sila ng strangers sa village. eh bat sabi ni epimaco na taga bf din na nung sya nagtanong walang ni sunuman ang nakakita. ano takot ewan.
isa lang bagay ang kaduda duda sa akin. bakit walang balita sa ibang acusado. sina gatchalian filart estrada etc etc. kung ako lang ah sa ganon sitwasyon, aba di ko papabayaang mag piggy back lang sa depensa ng barkada ko. dedepensahan ko sarili ko ba. eh me kaya din naman sila at me impluwensya din. palagay ko mas mayaman pa nga iba don kesa kina webb.
haka haka lang sa isip ko noh. baka yung mga engot na yon ang talagang me kasalanan at dinawit lang nila si webb. eh si webb lang maman kasi me matibay na depensa sila lahat wala.
kung totoo din yung sabi na pinaginitan ng nbi si webb dahil sa expose nya nga kagaguhan sa nbi eh matibay na dahilan yon kasi date iniisip ko bakit ang mga webb diba.
nakakatakot sa pinas mga pre. biro mo ituro ka lang ng witness kahit adik sentensyado ka na agad. mas matibay ang mata kesa sa hard evidense kagaya ng fingerprint, dna, murder weapon. kaya kayong mga magbabakasyon ingat kayo baka me magturo sa inyong genious at mga lumaki sa gulay na napaka talas ng paningin.
saka mga bro, wala ba kayong napapansin. ang mga taong nagsasabing guilty si webb eh sa panulat palang nila halata ng mga bobo at walang mga naabot sa buhay. yung naman nagsasabing inosente eh napaka gandang sumulat at halatang me mga naabot sa buhay.
innocent until proven guilty mga tsong dapat. saka dapat beyond reasonable doubt diba. kaya kahit me konting doubt sa kaso, dapat walang kumbiksyon. hirap sa pinas pag akusado ka dapat patunayan mong inosente ka. dapat baliktad. ang mga umaakusa dapat ang magbigay ebidensya na guilty ka. tignan mo kaso ni webb, sabi ng prosekusyon peke ebidensya nila. pero kahit isang bagay wala silang ebidensya na peke nga mga yon diba.
hay nako hirap sa pinas. dapat i nuclear bomb lahi naten
ahahhaa nice one i love it..
@tanga on December 9th, 2010 at 3:25 am
taba ng utak mo!!
ikaw ang dapat inuclear bomb!
hambog!!
@ramon . . . alam mo na ba latest news
tama si Jose…sino ang nag utos kay Biong na sirain ang mga ebidensya? hindi ba nila mapa kanta eto?
according to biong, upon his release, hindi siya ang nagsunog ng mga ebidensiya o naglinis ng crime scene kundi ang mga kamaganak ni vizconde. ayaw nilang madatnan ng parating na vizconde ang duguang silid.
thank God for the freedom of Hubert Webb!
DAPAT HINDI PINALAYA ANG LAHAT NG AKUSADO.wALA TALAGANG JUSTICE DITO SA PINAS.lAHAT NG SISTEMA BULOK
What happened to the maids who testified against Hubert Webb? Is there a link to read their testimonies?
pedeng guilty pedeng hinde. pero dyos ko naman mga pare ko, kung hahatol tayo ng tao eh dapat naman siguro yung ika nga eh beyond reasonable doubt. kahit ni katiting na duda dapat wala. hindi yung basta lang me magturo eh yun na jackpot. ganon lang ba kadali na maging guilty ang isang akusado, porke tinuro o nakita ni ganito at ni ganyan. di naman ata tama yon mga pre.
ebidensya ang kailangan. matibay na ebidensya. nakakahiya lang sa kasong ito eh walang matibay na ebidensya. puro eye witness lang. siguro ganon lang talaga kasi mga mangmang pa tayong mga pinoy. mga pulis natin boplaks pa. wala pa tayong mga magagaling na imbestigador na gumagamit ng syensa.meron man di pa rin sila ganon kahusay.
dapat sisihin dito and mismong sistema. kapulisan, mga pulitiko. walang maayos. kawawa naman si mr vizconde. sumalangit nawa sila.
isa lang ang masasabi ko… genious mga longkatuts at mga secu sa pinas. kaya nilang matandaan ang isang bagay sa eksaktong araw, buwan minuto kahit itoy nangyari na 4 yrs ago. grabe
comment ko sa hubert webb – vizconde incident
sana managot na kung sino talaga ang may kasalanan.
God Only Knows Syndrome…and to whoever have done the crime…no one, no one in this world will run scot-free…(this is biblical passage) He will answer everything before God – sooner or later…
I have also been to the US for a dozen or so times and I would say that most of the time, they don’t stamp my passport when leaving the country – at least not on the immigration and depends on the airline that i’m using.
as for the immigration in NAIA, the stamps mean nothing. one time I visited the philippines with a foreign friend who is a restricted national – he only has 30 days single entry visa. We boarded the plane but there was engine failure during the flight and so we went back to manila. my friend cannot re-enter the Philippines because he is on single entry visa which he can only apply abroad. the next available flight is a couple of days after. i helped him sort this out and after reasoning it wasn’t our fault, the original stamp was altered to a new date.
what i want to say is that based on my experience, these embarkation and disembarkation evidences that Webb submitted are not 100% reliable!!
@debbie true ka dyan! unless kopyahin ng immigration system ang sistema ng ibang bansa credible ng gamitin ni Hubert Webb ang embarkation at disembarkation card na yan. kawawa naman tayong pilipino mga mayayaman at maimpluwensya na lang ang nananalo. papano naman tayong mahihirap lang at di kayang mag-ingles as in fluent? wala ng saysay ang magkomento pa dito. nakawala na ang mga salarin.
where the hell is Jessica Alfaro? god i hate that ugly addict. she ruined a lot of people’s lives
[…] it to the Webbs, yes? I mean you may believe differently about Hubert etal getting that acquittal. you may want to read up regardless, because at the very least those in Bilibid Prisons need an open mind — your open […]
@tanga – Lahat ng sinabi mu pre agree ako. This is a lesson to our justice system. It’s very clearly stated in our law, BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT GUILTY. Like How SC described the past decisions of lower court, I’m also mystified by their decision.
Bukod sa statements ng witnesses of prosecution, may hard evidences ba?
@debbie…di po talaga tinatatakan if departing from US. Ang immigration card na naisubmit nyo sa airline counter upon check in is sufficient enough..i have been stuck in US immigration before and I was questioned for 2 hours…lahat ng entries ko sa US was in their data base..even hotels, cities i visited, departures from US.. lahat yan tinanong ako what was the purpose…pati first entry ko sa US which was 17 years ago pa..
God is in control and He reigns. Thank God for the release of Hubert Webb =)
joji umali, how can you be so sure that he is guilty when you don’t even have your information right by saying that Hubert has a twin brother. Michael, his brother, was my batch mate and I know for a fact that there are no twins in the Webb siblings. I am one of those celebrating that he has been acquitted
@Debbie, the Secretary of State Madeline Albreight herself, along with Attorney General Janet Reno certified that based on official USA records, Hubert was in the USA at the period he claimed he was. There was also certification from the FBI, the issuance of the driver’s license, Airline passenger manifest, the encashed checks, official receipts to his name for purchases from stores, etc… No way in hell all these documents could have been fake. Napaka credible naman ata ng INS at FBI compared sa isang Jessica Alfaro. Wala namang mapapala ang INS at FBi para pagtakpan sina Hubert.
The Supreme Court said it best, Jessica Alfaro was clearly lying.
nakakalungkot lang talaga isipin at this point in time ilang buhay ang nasira at ilang tao din ang nawala….let there be justice for the vizconde at lalo na justice for the people who were locked up & found innocent GOSH!!!! how in the world!!!!! Show urself now alfaro & face them all….poor old vizconde nabuhay cia sa maling paniniwala (poor soul)….. lets all pray for everyone!!!! For the Webb & co-aacused Praise GOD!!!!! u wont understand why but im happy truly happy for each family & ur love ones.
Everything can be fabricated, even in the usa.
Webb saying his son got his california driver’s license
wow, you can buy a real driver’s liscense for 40 dollars in los angeles.
like what lailani said “credible ng gamitin ni Hubert Webb ang embarkation at disembarkation card na yan”
Video’s easily manipulated simple editing.
Quite honestly, i don’t believe webb is innocent, he was just acquitted for insufficient evidence.
Just reminds me of the OJ simpson case.
My heart goes out to Vizconde.
Just because Hubert is out, does not make him innocent.
I’m sorry if some of you may be upset of what i have to say, but this is my opinion.
You guys condemning Alfaro for being a drug addict
it clearly shows Hubert is still an addict. Look at him in his interviews, he is all so jittery.
dont ever judge a person who or had been an addict.. i still depends on how they carry or washout the load..
@Chrissy – I’m not upset if you believe that Hubert is not innocent. But I can see how judgemental you are for saying that he is an addict without knowing him personally.
Are you in bilibid prison now, if you are, then i can believe that you know him personally and you’re probably doing the session with him. oh my goodness! they have internet access in bilibid prison!
I also watched last night’s “dalawang mukha..” ni cheche lazaro, i was struck by what Freddie Webb said “kung may kasalanan yan (referring to Hubert) palagay nyo ba magpapagod pa kami pumasyal dito (bilibid) every Sunday para dalawin sya?”..-or something to that effect..- Well..masasabi ko lang kung magulang ka kahit may kasalanan ang anak mo gagawin mo pa rin yan….pero kung kapatid ka lang .. mas malaki ang chance na mag-“iwanan” … kung kapatid mo gumawa ng kasalanan dadalaw ka ba sa bilibid 4days a month, 52days in a year, 780days in 15years?????? magpapakapagod ka bang ipagtanggol ang kapatid mong kriminal dahil nahihiya ka lang sa mga parents mo??? sa TV special i saw these siblings longing for their INNOCENT brother….
And for those who are saying money played a role in this SC decision. Yeah right!! the webbs waited for 15 years for Hubert to suffer inside the prison. And maybe they had planned this through like, it would be better to wait until the case is brought to the Supreme Court and bribe 8 people just to at least get a majority win than doing it 10 years ago when they only had to bribe ONE regional trial court judge or some years ago when they had to bribe at least 3 judges in the Court of Appeals. Maybe the Webbs also consulted their accountant and financial advisor about the inflation rate who in turn advised them to wait for 15 years because they believe that the money the Webbs have back then would have greater value after 15 years and that means now and would be very hard to refuse to. They may also have thought that it would be easier to bribe the Supreme Court judges because they have got lesser to lose if caught receiving bribes than a regional trial court judge has.
Anyway, I’m really happy for the Webbs. I was in highschool when this became a big issue and back then and up to this time, I have never believed any of Jessica Alfaro’s story! I remember answering a psychological test as a pre-employment requirement. And there’s a question that goes like this “Do you like to see someone go to jail?” First thing that came to my mind “Jessica Alfaro” and then I checked the box that says “YES”. I just really hate liars!!! She has ruined many people’s lives including that of Lauro Vizconde.
I just recently got interested with the Vizonde case. I just read Fritz statement about their Hibert’s defense… how sad cause I was only 15 years old when teh crime happened and I almost believed that the accused were all guilty…
Next time the court should not allow any massacre movie that would lead to unfair judgemnt of public and worst the judge itself…
I firmly believed that Judge Tolentino got her decision dahil fan sya ni Carlo Caparas…
with all the evidence and circumstances… she remained biased and stupid! if this can happen to wealthy and influential people much more to the less unfortunate…
to all the haters…. read the SC ruling… shocking that we all got fooled by the media, NBI, PNP even VACC…. I feel for the Vizconde family but they should opened their eyes pra di sila nagamit ng mga taong nkapaligid sa kanila…
truth is, Mr. Lauro should have his relatives investigated as well.. and even dun mga umamin na robbers…
Hubert might be a “user”, “spoiled” or careless teenager.. but I dont think he is guilty…
sa simpleng paliwanag lang… kung talagang pinaandar nila ang impluwensya at pera nila…. bkit kailangan pahirapan nila ang anak nila at makulong ng 15 years…..
They are really trying hard to clear his guilt from the first day he spent from the Maximum Security Facility. It took the Suspects’ love ones to destroy Justice for fifteen years ! ! It took 15 years to break out of Prison !
@iksynnos > Tama ka dyan. Ang mga magulang ay gagawin ang lahat kahit alam nilang may kasalanan ang anak nila pero ang gma kapatid ay hindi mag aaksaya ng oras para dalawin linggox2 ang kapatid nila kung alam nilang may kasalanan ito. Ang kapatid ko ay user at pusher at ni minsan ay hindi naniwala ang nanay ko na ganito ang kapatid ko pero kaming lahat na magkakapatid na naniniwalang addict at pusher sya ay di na namin sya kinakausap at dumating pa sa punto na gusto ko syang ipa-salvage dahil sa pagpapahirap nya sa buhay ng nanay ko.
Naniniwala akong INOSENTE ang mga akusado at dapat lang na managot sina Alfaro at iba pang kasabwat at nagpaikot kay Lauro Visconde para idiin sina Hubert Webb.
Bakit nga ba hindi imbistigahan ang mga kamag-anak na naglinis ng mga ebidensya sa bahay ng mga Visconde? Hindi kaya isa sa kanila ay may alam?
bea3z ;) ako din, i wonder what was really going on with the relatives who had the house cleaned. was it lauro’s family? the wife’s family? and what was going on with the wife in those days? naimbestigahan na kaya ito noon?
@Angela> I doubt, kasi nag stick sila sa pahayag ni Alfaro. It was indeed an interesting case. Sana i-open ulit nila ang case at mahuli na ang tutoong culprit nang mapanatag narin ang kaluluwa ng mga namatay.
In the Che Che Lazaro documentary, Lauro Vizconde admitted to have consulted clairvoyants, psychics and other “manghuhulas” who pointed out that Hubert Webb and the others were the ones who killed his family.
I can’t believe Mr. Vizconde fell for that! He even submitted those names (given by clairvoyants, psychics) to the NBI! Another thing is, during one of his last phone calls with his daughter, Carmela Vizconde didn’t even name her “suitor who is a son of a politician”, so it leaves room for so many possible suspects to the crime. Also, why didn’t Mr. Vizconde ask Carmela’s classmates, or the friends of his wife during the investigations.
There could be so many other links to this crime, not just related to Carmela, it could be connected to his wife’s friends, colleagues, or even the Vizconde’s household help, who claimed they didn’t notice anything happening during the killings of the Vizcondes.
What the hell happened to Jessica Alfaro? She should be put to jail for fraud and deception. She obviously lied and pretended to be an asset to the case, when it was clearly obvious that the NBI just wanted to close this case that’s why she came into the picture. Imagine, she only came into the picture only after four years! Ever since they came out with the massacre movies (Vizconde Massacre Movie, Jessica Alfaro Story, etc), it became evident that the crime would be unsolved, due to the media blowing things out of proportion and focusing on controversies and rumors.
Obviously, Mariano Mison wanted to have a good name upon being appointed by former President Ramos that is why this case was rushed and closed upon putting Webb and the others to prison.
Did you guys watch how Mison defended his claims against the official documents presented by the U.S. diplomats? Mison obviously just wanted to let the whole country know that he did a “good job” by putting Webb and others jail when those weren’t the real criminals! He even called the documents fake when the U.S. can officially verify the real documents. Why didn’t he push through with the investigation of documents? Mison insists that those documents from the U.S. can be falsified but didn’t he think that those maids and other so-called witnesses can be bribed as well?
just read the differing opinions of people here. May comment ko about DNA testing. kahit 4 or more and magrape sa isang victim i read na pwede ma isolate ang DNA profile ng nagcontribute ng semen. from the start kung pumayag si Judge Tolentino sa DNA testing wala tayo ngayon after 15 years magdebate sa Vizconde case. Biased si Judge Tolentino at pasikat kaya yong mga evidence ng defense hindi nga inaprove. Di ako familiar ng law pero di ba burden ng prosecution if fake ang evidence ng defense or genuine. Parang slumdunk lang yon case. Yong trial was just for show.Feeling ko lang ginawang scapegoat is Hubert.
I think even if the case will be reopen again mhirap n mahanap kung cno tlg ang mga pumatay.After so many years na trial,nagkamali pa nga at d pa den nsolve ung case..what more ngaun pa. May mga totoong witnesses na tkot lng lumabas at umamin hanggang ngaun.Only the killers, the victims and God himself knows. Kung di man pagbayaran ng mga pumatay dito yan,bhala na nsa taas sa kanila. Mdame pinagtakpan,mdame na ding hocus pocus sa kaso na yan.Impossible na for justice to be served.
documents pwede ma fake that is true but ang difference nito sa iba, US government nag-certify na TRUE yung documents, naman sino ang mga Webbs para pagbigyan ng US gov’t?
and 2 na dating NBI directors — si Fred Lim at si Epi Velasco naniniwala na INNOCENT si Hubert
the DNA sample nawala, for the NBI to be so careless di ba kaduda duda!
I am so glad that he’s FREE!
[…] stats for revisiting hubert webb spiked like mad, through the ceiling, the day he was acquitted. which is good. people are […]
Back in those days, when you entered the US, your passport would get stamped by Immigration during arrival at your point of entry. Every time you left the U.S., they didn’t care to note the date of your departure so your passport didn’t get stamped any date. In fact, it was pretty common for well-connected Green Card Holders who still lived primarily in Manila (GC holders are not allowed to be outside of the U.S. for more than 6 months) to postdate their arrival stamp in the Philippines, to make it seem like they were out of U.S. soil less than 6 months, even though they’d been gone for much longer than that.
It’s a possibility there was a trip to the U.S. that occurred in March 1991. Clearly this arrival to the U.S. would be documented by U.S officials. BUT they would not have a record of his departure prior to June 30, 1991, the date of the crime.
After the crime, it would have been so easy for him to travel to the U.S. under a different name, bearing a different set of documents. This makes it appear like he wasn’t in Manila at all during that time and makes for an easy alibi. When he returned in October 1992, he then could have presented his legitimate papers, made it a point to note that date, now making it seem like he was actually there from March ’91 to Oct. ’92.
I specifically know people during that time who’ve done both the things I mentioned above – the post-dating, sometimes antedating, and someone who has traveled while bearing documents that had a different name on it. These people are not not by any means as well-connected as the Webbs, and it was still pretty easy to do this.
So following this model, the Webbs really didn’t need to have major ‘connections’ with U.S. officials for them to provide the supporting documents. Nor did the officials need to lie for the sake of the Webbs. The U.S. officials are only working with the information that they have. There’s no way for the U.S. to know that the information they have has been manipulated to be as such, especially during those times. Nowadays, because of 9-11, such practices are no longer possible. Everything is now tracked, all entries and all departures.
Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce, but in this case, after considering the possibility of the scenario above, are they really relevant? In my opinion they would be IF they were taken 1 day before the crime date, on the day of the crime or 1 day after. Does he even have a specific alibi, and someone who can vouch for his whereabouts on that specific June day?
I’m merely stating possibilities here, not saying that it’s what was arranged to make a plausible alibi for Hubert Webb. I’m just emphasizing how easy it was to manipulate the system to your advantage, as long as you knew how it worked. Obviously with the Webb’s status, they knew how the system worked.
There are many questions that linger in my mind, and a few to note that I haven’t read yet in the comments here are –
1) Why would Hubert Webb need to be in the U.S. for that long, to be TNT, for what? There’s no son of an incumbent politician I know who would dare do this. Why be an illegal alien in a different country when you can live like a prince in your home country? And all the while he was supposed to be employed as a consultant under his father’s office, but living in America as a TNT? That does not make sense.
2)Why has Biong’s connection to the Webbs not weighed in as much as it should? It speaks volumes to me that he was the one who destroyed evidence.
3)Why would those 2 other guys flee if this group really was innocent?
I really wish that the intelligence of the Filipinos would cease to be insulted by influential people. The memory of Filipino people is surely short-term… as demonstrated by the high government positions that the Marcoses hold now. But for the ‘able’ ones to take advantage of the malleability of Filipino minds by way of manipulation and well-designed press releases/docudramas, it is quite disgusting.
“Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce, but in this case, after considering the possibility of the scenario above, are they really relevant? In my opinion they would be IF they were taken 1 day before the crime date, on the day of the crime or 1 day after.”
@Gabby – I don’t understand why it has to be ONE DAY before the crime happened. Lauro Vizconde said that his daughter Carmela tells everything to him. 17 days before they died he called them and that was when Carmela said that she turned down a politician’s son (who she didn’t name despite of Freddie Webb really being popular) who was courting her. Now, I assume that you think it was Hubert who was courting Carmela. In that case, Hubert must have been in the Philippines 17 or MORE DAYS BEFORE THE CRIME HAPPENED! AND NOT ONE DAY!
Now, let’s consider Jessica Alfaro’s testimony. Alfaro said the TWO HAVE AN ON AND OFF THING KIND OF RELATIONSHIP. That already contradicts what Lauro Vizconde said. But obviously, you take Alfaro’s testimony as a gospel truth, so let’s leave Lauro Vizconde out of the picture. Now, if what has to be established is that Hubert was in the Phils ONE DAY before the crime happened, that means at
June 29 – 9am, Hubert and Carmela, were ON a relationship
June 29 – let’s say 3pm they went cool OFF
June 30 – 9am, they were ON a relationship AGAIN
June 30 – afternoon they went cool OFF AGAIN
Do you think it makes sense? In both Lauro Vizconde’s statement and Jessica Alfaro’s testimony, IT HAS TO BE DAYS before the crime happened and NOT ONE DAY!!!
Obviously, you don’t accept all the documents Webb presented to support that he was miles away from the crime scene when it happened, but you do accept that Hubert indeed went to the US in March 1991, and you think he just went back to the Phils, to kill and gang-rape Carmela who cheated on their ON and OFF relationship (according to Alfaro’s testimony).. NOT A DEEP AND MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIP… it doesn’t make sense to me!
Also, if they were really able to fake all those documents they presented which as you said is possible without exercising their influence (EVEN IN THE US???!!! as others claim), then what a poor country US must be!!! THEIR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS JUST SIGN PAPERS AT THE MERE REQUEST OF SOMEONE!!! OR…….. the Webbs must have bribed them and they are very poor now, imagine they have TO BRIBE IN DOLLARS. You must be also on the belief that the Webbs bribed the 7 justices in SC that’s why they favored Hubert’s acquittal. Otherwise, YOU THINK YOU’RE WISER THAN THEM!
Lastly, if there’s a thing that should bother your mind, it should be “WHY THE PROSECUTORS DIDN’T TRY TO DISCREDIT THE DEFENSE CLAIM OF ALIBI?” The defense is alibi and that’s what the prosecutors have to prove otherwise to destroy the claim of alibi and get the verdict of GUILTY BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT!
@Gabby – oh about the stamping of passport. you maybe right, the US immigration may not always stamp the passport but it’s recorded in their system and obviously it’s not only you who knows that. That’s why a CERTIFICATE was presented as a proof and not just the passport!
@ happy for the webbs… hehehehehe.. well said
@ Gabby.. I undertsand your confusion.. last 1995 i was convinced that Hubert was really guilty because of Media circus and VACC emotianl rallies… i just read the SC decision yesterday…I am so proud of our justice system… kaya nga may piring ung mata nung Lady justice eh… ksi ang tnitimbang evidence hindi naman emotions at paramihan ng iyak..
I read the story about senator’s webb confession reagrding “drug incident” and then it really made realized that they maybe rich but not powerful and influential.. infact helpless sila.. ksi nagamit sila ng madaming pulitko pra sumikat that time at tumaas ang popularoty rate…
even with Judge Tolentino.. di ko alam kung san law school nagtapos at umpisa pa lang eh guilty na sa kanya ang mga accused… pra lang mapanindigan nya ung decision nya at sumikat sya she kept her eyes closed….
VACC… anti crime commission?? dpat Violence Against HUbert WEebb… ksi ang focus lang nila mapakulong si Hubert…did they even bother to really investigate what happened? if they really want to help Mr. Vizconde.. dpat lahat ng angle tinignan nila..
it was also cited sa SC decision.. how come Mr. X ung sinasabi na lover ni Carmela hindi lumabas na reason daw para magalit si hubert at rape sya… how about carmela’s frends.. nobody testify that Hubertw as indeed her bf that time.. ung relatives na lang… ni isa walang nag testify…
i think even if they reopen the case or investigate again useless… ksi ang nktatak sa mga tao eh si hubert ang may sala.. kya kwawwa si Mr. Vizconde.. he wasnt able to see the otehr side of the story.. nagamit sya ng maraming ahensya ng gobyerbno..
and sa mag cocoment.. sna before u curse our justice system… magbasa muna.. I am not a law graduate but SC decision was very clear on their stand…Tanga lang ang mag sabe na mali ang SC at mag inisist na makulong ung mga kawawang akusado..
mababaw na ingles lang ang ginamit ng SC sa decision nila so I thing khit si Juan Tamad ma comprehend un..
The fuss is all about Hubert Webbs alibi, how about the others? Documents can be falsified. Videos are taken before or after the brutal incident. Witnesses can be mislead. They are asking the wrong questions. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
read this: especially the last part –
“The courts below held that, despite his evidence, Webb was actually in Parañaque when the Vizconde killings took place; he was not in the U.S. from March 9, 1991 to October 27,1992; and if he did leave on March 9, 1991, he actually returned before June 29, 1991,committed the crime, erased the fact of his return to the Philippines from the records of the U.S. and Philippine Immigrations, smuggled himself out of the Philippines and into the U.S.,and returned the normal way on October 27, 1992. But this ruling practically makes the death of Webb and his passage into the next life the only acceptable alibi in the Philippines. Courts must abandon this unjust and inhuman paradigm.”
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and this
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“The trial court and the Court of Appeals expressed marked cynicism over the accuracy of travel documents like the passport as well as the domestic and foreign records of departures and arrivals from airports. They claim that it would not have been impossible for Webb to secretly return to the Philippines after he supposedly left it on March 9, 1991, commit the crime, go back to the U.S., and openly return to the Philippines again on October 26, 1992.Travel between the U.S. and the Philippines, said the lower courts took only about twelve tofourteen hours.
If the Court were to subscribe to this extremely skeptical view, it might as well tear the rules of evidence out of the law books and regard suspicions, surmises, or speculations as reasons for impeaching evidence. It is not that official records, which carry the presumption of truth of what they state, are immune to attack. They are not. That presumption can be overcome by evidence. Here, however, the prosecution did not bother to present evidence to impeach the entries in Webb’s passport and the certifications of the Philippine and U.S.’ immigration services regarding his travel to the U.S. and back. The prosecution’s rebuttal evidence is the fear of the unknown that it planted in the lower court’s minds.”
first of all, congrats to the Webb family for succeeding to get a split SC decision, 7-4-4,thru a smart tactical move of raising the DNA test issue. Even if you add Justice Carpio vote to the acquittal,you still have a 7 votes of not concurring to the acquittal. The spokeman,Atty. Marquez, also said the decision did not state that Hubert et al were found innocent but only did not give weight to the credibility of the Eyewitnesses which was not collaborated effectively to prove guilt beyong reasonable doubt. I quote Antony Taverna in his DZMM radio programme where he made the following comments:according to Judge Manuel Pamaran, the “hanging judge of Manila” the decision of SC magistrate is inherently weak since the review of criminal case were based on documentary evidences and not on facts as deliberated and observed in the actual court trial where the behavior or demeanor of the eyewitness can be observed and seen physically. this comment was also concurred by former Justice E. Sandoval, an expert on criminal jurisdence. hence both judges were for retention of conviction. Therefore, technically I believe, SC could have also made an error of judgement and not absolutely sure if the truth of the facts were beyond personal biases or emotional smoke screen. also, if the main eyewitness was a drug-addict and the suspects were a group of drug users, one of this group must be responsible and quilty. Who among them??? Only God knows, since the case is close.
One name. Biong. The guy who burned all the evidence in the crime scene.
yes, the us immigration doesn’t stamp your passport an entry ? have you been in the US ? they don’t stamp but you have to fill up i believe an i96 card and they are feeding it in their computer, and when you go back home you have to give that i96 card again and they will record it back in their computer. You can’t fake US documents plus the fact that US Government Officials are alaready testifying. OO sa pinoy puros mandurugas pwede talaga pekein pero sa US demet baka kapatid mo si Barak Obama non.
@joji – please know that even from the start when the case was still in paranaque regional trial court under the sala of Judge Amelita Tolentino, the defense already asked for a DNA test. However, Judge Tolentino was the one who declined that such a test be conducted, so your argument that the Webbs used it as a tactic this time to get a 7-4-4 vote doesn’t have any valid ground. There was also no mention in SC ruling that says they CANNOT GIVE A GUILTY VERDICT BECAUSE THE SEMEN SAMPLE WERE MISSING. It was not even used by the SC.
“the decision of SC magistrate is inherently weak since the review of criminal case were based on documentary evidences and not on facts as deliberated and observed in the actual court trial where the behavior or demeanor of the eyewitness can be observed and seen physically”
FYI, the DEFENSE requested the SC to let witnesses be put again on the witness stand but SC refused such a request. That only goes to show that the DEFENSE is confident that if only SC would see the deliberation and observe the actions of the witnesses, the greater their chance of getting an acquittal verdict.
On the issue that the SC decision DOESN’T NECESSARILY MEAN THE INNOCENCE OF THE ACCUSED, if that is so, then IT SHOULD GO ON THE SAME WAY ON THE OPPOSITE TOO TO BE FAIR. That is, it’s just also but fair to say that the CA verdict of 3-2 in favor of the prosecution DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY MEAN THAT THE ACCUSED WERE GUILTY. So if you are UNBIASED, then YOU MUST BE BOTH: (Take note BOTH not one of the two)
1. CANNOT COMPLETELY BELIEVE THE INNOCENCE OF THE ACCUSED because there were 3 CA justices and 4 SC justices who were able to establish the guilt of the accused. AND
2. CANNOT COMPLETELY BELIEVE THE GUILT OF THE ACCUSED because there were 2 justices in CA and 7 justices in SC who said that their guilt cannot be established.
In short, for you, innocence or guilt of the accused can ONLY BE ASSURED if the decision is UNANIMOUS. But you don’t sound like BOTH OF THE ABOVE to me. You sound more like the #1 especially with the way you have started your comment.
How come they didn’t even investigate the Vizconde’s maids? They were still alive and they even said they “didn’t notice” anything happening inside the Master’s bedroom.
They didn’t even find links to people who were close to Carmela, classmates, other friends, or links to Estrellita, friends and colleagues perhaps, or even the surrounding neighborhood. BF Homes Paranaque at that time had so many constructions sites everywhere (former NBI chief Velasco said it himself) and they only focused on Webb and the others.
So happy for the Webbs!!!
@Happy, how can you conclude from what I said that I accept Alfaro’s story in its entirety? Did I even mention her?
All I said specifically was that the two scenarios I described were possibilities. The rest of what you said… you put those words in my mouth, they didn’t come from me.
I mentioned and focused on the ‘1 day before and after’ because I’m stripping it down to just the crime date for simplicity’s sake. He wasn’t convicted for courting Carmela.
And as for the U.S., I never said anything about bribing the U.S. officials. Calm down and try to understand my point before you ramble on and on… All I said was that the U.S. officials can only certify the information that they have in front of them. There’s no way for them to know whether that information was manipulated to appear as such. Back in those days, there was no record WHATSOEVER of any departures from the U.S. The computer systems and procedures to document this information only came after 9-11.
I understand what the SC decision is based on. I never said that the justices were bribed. You don’t have to insult me. But this acquittal doesn’t mean that the SC proclaims this group as innocent. I agree that who and what fails here are the prosecution team and the criminal-handling ‘system’of the country. And that is just truly sad.
@Bernie, of course the US has records of ALL entries at immigration. Can you re-read what I said. I said they used to NOT have records of EXITS prior to 9-11. And yes I’ve been there. Many times. But why is that even relevant?
@Gabby – then what exactly is your point? I can’t imagine someone making a conclusion of what dates are relevant in the case without making assumptions. Yes to me that is a conclusion and not a mere narrowing down of dates for simplicity sake. And your assumptions are what I’m trying to come up to. So please be more specific.
“Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce”. ISN’T THIS A CONCLUSION RELATED TO THE CASE? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.
“I’m merely stating possibilities here, not saying that it’s what was arranged to make a plausible alibi for Hubert Webb. I’m just emphasizing how easy it was to manipulate the system to your advantage, as long as you knew how it worked. Obviously with the Webb’s status, they knew how the system worked.” PLEASE TELL ME WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THIS? HOW CAN INFORMATION BE MANIPULATED? BY WHOM? AND WHY THE PERSON WHO’S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CUSTODY OF THE INFORMATION WOULD LET IT BE MANIPULATED?
“It’s a possibility there was a trip to the U.S. that occurred in March 1991. Clearly this arrival to the U.S. would be documented by U.S officials. BUT they would not have a record of his departure prior to June 30, 1991, the date of the crime.” THIS ASSUMPTION…. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? AND HOW CAN THIS BE RELEVANT TO THE CASE?
I’m sorry if I have to make my questions in bold letters. It’s just for clarity sake… can’t separate your comments from mine.
I have green card holder relatives that traveled frequently between the US and the Philippines in the early 90’s but appear on US Immigration records as having been in the US all the time. This is almost impossible to do now but was very easy during the early 90’s due to lax security and corruption in both the US and the Philippines.
Read the article from the Pulitzer Prize winning newspaper “The Oregonian” about the US Immigration and Naturalization Service titled:
“INS one the most corrupt federal law-enforcement agencies ”
http://www.oregonlive.com/ins/index.ssf?/news/oregonian/00/12/lc_21crime11.frame
@emy – and then……
Gusto ko ang mga komento ni Gabby hindi kelangan makipag-away para i-prove na tama ang paniniwala ng isang tao. Dapat cool lang paniniwala lang ito eh hindi kelangan makipag-talo. Kudos for GABBY!!! FYI di ko sha kilala pero nakakaaliw ang mga komento nya. Thanks for sharing light on this webb- based discussion.
@happy:
I really appreciate you getting rid of your condescending tone. I’m just expressing opinions, possibilities and speculations for open-minded discussion. Who knows what the truth is, anymore? Below are my answers to your queries:
____________________________________________
“Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce”. ISN’T THIS A CONCLUSION RELATED TO THE CASE? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. – Happy @ 12/17 9:07AM
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Not a conclusion, but fact that it is indeed easy to produce such materials for ANYONE. I’m not saying that it’s FACT that they purposefully created these things to strengthen his alibi – only that it would not have been hard for them to produce such material and that it’s possible. And I’m not saying that they falsified this material either. These may have been legitimate videos, receipts, tickets etc… but if the date stamp on these items are well after the crime happened, or well before, then how does it prove that he was really in the U.S. on June. 30, 1991 as they insist?
__________________________________
“I’m merely stating possibilities here, not saying that it’s what was arranged to make a plausible alibi for Hubert Webb. I’m just emphasizing how easy it was to manipulate the system to your advantage, as long as you knew how it worked. Obviously with the Webb’s status, they knew how the system worked.” PLEASE TELL ME WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THIS? HOW CAN INFORMATION BE MANIPULATED? BY WHOM? AND WHY THE PERSON WHO’S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CUSTODY OF THE INFORMATION WOULD LET IT BE MANIPULATED? -Happy @ 12/17 9:07 AM
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What I’m saying is that the information that the U.S. had could have been manipulated to appear a certain way – that is as far as they’re concerned, Hubert Webb was on U.S. soil from March ’91-Oct ’92. This relates to the comment above asking if this weren’t true, why would the U.S. vouch for the Webbs, expressing incredulity at Pinoys being able to bribe American officials. My point is that it would be easy for the U.S. officials to certify information without having to lie or be bribed, instead use the possibly-manipulated-information that’s in front of them. When I say “manipulation of information”, I don’t mean the physical act of tampering. I’m referring more to manipulation by way of ‘setting things up’ to make it appear a certain way, or perhaps drawing attention away from something else that somebody would prefer to go unnoticed. This is all a possibility – AGAIN because of the lax information management system back then in U.S. Immigration (no record of exits) which I tried to describe in the first part of my first comment. (BTW, I think Emmy’s point in his/her above comment about green cards as well supports this idea. If it’s not the intent, Emy, I don’t mean to put words in your mouth.)
___________________________________
“It’s a possibility there was a trip to the U.S. that occurred in March 1991. Clearly this arrival to the U.S. would be documented by U.S officials. BUT they would not have a record of his departure prior to June 30, 1991, the date of the crime.” THIS ASSUMPTION…. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? AND HOW CAN THIS BE RELEVANT TO THE CASE? – Happy @ 12/17 9:07 AM
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The assumption here is that there was a departure from the U.S. and a return to Manila that happened between March ’91 and June 30 ’91. The FACT is that the U.S. would NOT have this information because it is FACT that they did not record exit information back then. This is part of the system that could easily be manipulated and abused, as Emmy described in his comment above. Obviously it’s relevant to the crime since if the stated assumption were true, then his alibi of
being in the U.S. on the occurrence date of the crime is shot.
STILL a big question in my mind —
You’re given an allowed length of stay in the U.S. when you land. Usually for first-time travelers, it’s 3 months…. 6 if you’re lucky, maybe 9 if you’re really lucky. Why again would he be staying as TNT for 18+ months from March ’91-Oct ’92 all the while slotted as ‘instated’ in his father’s office?
@Lailani, thanks. I don’t understand why people get so war-freakishly bull-headed in these types of forums. I’m not even saying or proving I’m right. I’m just expressing an opinion, and presenting a thought, hopefully engage in a logical, educated and level-headed conversation.
BTW, “webb-based”, how clever. :)
” thanks. I don’t understand why people get so war-freakishly bull-headed in these types of forums”
@ gabby: welcome 2 the internet.hay naku, nakakalungkot ano?
this is something i dont get about the law and the visconde case. i understand that its POSSIBLE for him to have been in the philippines.
but i’ve always understood that an accused is innocent until proven guilty. hence, the prosecution must PROVE he was here. its not enough to say that its possible.
i dont think the defense even spent any time proving he was in RP, no? its probably coz of the idea that “alibi is weak”, which is a principle i dont get. “alibi is weak” seems to suggest that alibi will never be a sufficient defense,
@gabby – i get what you’re trying to do, which is to cast doubt on webb’s innocence. this is the opposite of the decision-making framework of our justice system, which is that you always start by casting doubts on the guilt of the accused.
however i think you, and lot of us here, are asking the real truth to come out because despite the brilliant reasoning of the Supreme Court, their decision still leaves gaping questions as to what really happened. The task of the SC was to answer a narrow question if we can reasonably doubt Webb’s guilt. They gave a brilliant answer, one which reinstates my confidence that reason still prevails, never mind the scale one must climb in our judiciary to find it. Unfortunately, the same brilliant answer led to even more uncomfortable — even sinister — questions.
you are asking uncomfortable questions — that’s why you are getting emotional reactions. but questions that tend to cast doubt on webb’s innocence are trivial when compared to questions that tend to cast doubts on webb’s guilt.
you ask, what if webb successfully covered his tracks? the implication of this is that the u.s. and philippine immigration controls are as porous as a sponge. big deal.
but try asking, what if Jessica Alfaro lied? can you even begin to imagine how sinister what the implications are? because if Jessica Alfaro lied that she witnessed the crime first-hand, then Webb was framed. if Webb was framed, then NBI and PNP manufactured false witnesses and possibly destroyed evidence that could prove his innocence. would you be able to sleep at night knowing that anyone can be utterly destroyed by those in positions of power to further their interests? that you would have thought you should be lucky that you could prove you were halfway around the world when the crime happened, that way you have a strong reason to defend your innocence, but an incompetent court could still find you guilty?
but hey, you don’t even need to suppose that Jessica Alfaro lied. the SC majority says that jessica alfaro manufactured the whole story. and this is what makes me angry. that’s why people who agree with the SC majority are so emotional about this. because it means that the NBI did something as evil and calculating as murder. and it could have been any of us.
so we could go on and on imagining how webb could have gotten away with murder. but let’s not lose sight what this case has taught us: that in our country, it is possible to be framed by people in position of authority to further their interest, and not to have a competent court to objectively hear your pleas of innocence.
Teodoro Locsin Jr. on The Acquittal of Hubert Webb
http://propinoy.net/2010/12/17/on-the-acquittal-of-hubert-webb/
[In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall be presumed innocent until the contrary is proved
– Section 14 (2), Article III of the 1987 Constitution]
Since Day 1 up to the time the SC released its final decision, Webb et al enjoyed the presumption of innocence while in detention (albeit for a long period of time). A contrary presumption was not proven in Court.
Associate Justice Maria Lourdes P. A. Sereno writes:
[In pronouncing the presumption of innocence of the accused and their right to due process, the Constitution declares that the risk of letting the guilty walk free would be error on the side of justice. This outcome is infinitely better than imprisoning an innocent person.]
“Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,” says English jurist William Blackstone.
marami akong theories para dito. alam niyo pwede rin ibang WEBB yung gumawa at si hubert lang yung umako ng kasalanan dahil siya yung nasa states at ipapalaya siya agad diba? what if sinakripisyo siya kase guilty talaga yung isang webb?
WALA LANG. PERO PWEDE RIN!
Iniwan ko ang Pilipinas sa 1981 at pagkatapos ng lahat ng mga taong ito walang nagbago maliban sa ang katunayan na ang pagmamanipula ng mga sistema ng hustisya sa Pilipinas at ang paglago sa teknolohiya ay ginawa ito ng isang maliit na mas mahirap. Pa rin ang sistema ng hustisya sa Pilipinas ay patuloy na tingnan ang iba pang mga paraan. Hindi sa tingin ko yaman nilalaro ng isang malaking papel sa kasong ito ngunit kailangan kong sumang-ayon sa Gabi na ang Webb’s ay may mga pananaw sa kung paano ang sistema gumagana.
FBI at US Immigration apidabit ay hindi magdagdag ng halaga sa kaso na ito as gabi pointed out. Na hindi nagbibigay ng mga ideya at impormasyon kung paano mga dokumento ay madaling manipulahin, ito ay maaaring tapos na lalo na bago ang 9 / 11. Kahit ngayon nito posible pa rin. Isinasaalang-alang video oras stamp bilang ebidensiya ay isang joke. Mga resibo, dmv, at paychecks ay din madaling kopyahin. Lahat ng kailangan kong sabihin ay kung ang isang tao ay nagnanais na gawin ang isang bagay na iligal na sa US, ito ay maaaring.
webb doing a good job manipulating the system.
revisiting hubert webb…
Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……
God knows everything. One thing is sure … whoever is guilty will pay for it, either here or when he meets his Creator. God’s judgement is for eternity. Remember, God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice… “He will not let the guilty unpunished.”
@Jun – Thanks for that insightful response. Cheers–
“you are asking uncomfortable questions — that’s why you are getting emotional reactions. but questions that tend to cast doubt on webb’s innocence are trivial when compared to questions that tend to cast doubts on webb’s guilt.” – Jun @ 12/18 12:22 PM
I personally would consider neither one as trivial. They were THE primary suspects. Emotionally-speaking (as we’ve established, emotions are deeply involved even to us who are mere spectators to this case), that’s reason enough to cast doubt on their innocence, even though logically and legally, they ARE innocent until proven guilty. Imagine talking to the Vizconde family and telling them to their faces that questions that cast doubt on the innocence of the primary suspects for the murder of their loved ones are trivial compared to questions that cast doubt on their guilt? Ouch! However, the opposite would also sting if the Webb family were concerned… so I suppose it’s all relative.
These are questions that SHOULD have been competently cast and settled by the prosecution and the defense teams during the trial… but in my opinion both sides failed miserably and THIS IS WHY we are left here with the gaping questions unanswered. The incompetence from both sides is what’s most frustrating, and that’s why we’re left pondering possibilities as futile as it may be.
If Webb lied, needless to say the prosecution failed at refuting his alibi, and it could have been so simple had they just given it due time and effort to disprove his claims. On the other hand if Alfaro lied, then Webb’s defense team also failed since they were only able to revert the decision 15 YEARS later. (Of course, the uncanny timing of the events that transpired right before the SC judgment again brings numerous questions to the table… but I digress.) In addition, this implication introduces a whole gamut of injustices inflicted, not only to the Webbs and the Vizcondes, but most of all, and MOST brutally to the Filipino people.
I agreed with everything you said above 100%, IF your supposition about Alfaro lying with regard to her testimony were true. I would be just as angry as you. But believing the SC judgment in its entirety is also believing that the Supreme Court is incorruptible and infallible, no? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the NBI and PNP are not capable of what you’re implying because I am certain that they are. Nowadays, nothing is impossible. But does the SC really have the right to be deemed the righteous one in this? Also, haven’t we been saying — “innocent until proven guilty”? So in the same token, shouldn’t the implication of an NBI/PNP conspiracy be proven as fact first before we accept it as truth? I’m not saying NOT to ask the necessary questions, we damn well must! But maybe it’s a good idea to keep our strong emotions at bay until we’re in a better position to see what the truth is in all this.
The question is where and how do we find it?
To me, leaving it at the finality of the S.C. judgment is unacceptable. If this judgment inevitably implicates the NBI and PNP, then heck, prosecute these institutions and let’s dig for the truth! We all deserve the truth, at the very least we need to make sense out of all of this. This case has transcended the Vizcondes and the Webbs since how this case was handled by ALL parties involved, (from the immediate responders, to the prosecution and defense teams, NBI, PNP, lower courts and highest court) sets a precedent and it could be any one of us on EITHER side of the coin.
Sadly, what this whole thing has taught me is that the truth is hard to come by. Trust is difficult to bestow on anyone in the Philippine government — in all branches. You don’t know whom to believe anymore, and who means well or has an agenda. We need a MAJOR overhaul and I pray for even a glimpse of hope at this point.
However way I look at it — the situation truly is heart-breaking.
(Oops, there go my emotions again.)
I pretty much agree with the SC decision that if you cannot prove a man’s guilt beyond reasonable doubt, then by all means that man should be set free. I for one, was not totally convinced of hubert’s guilt for the mere fact that the evidence was solely based on a so-called eyewitness, whose testimony seemed to raise more questions than answers.
People have said that the US documents could have been easily faked or bought. Someone said that the evidence presented by the defense was useless because the dates were not on if not in close proximity of the date of murder. If you think about it, if they were indeed faked, why not then produce documents with the exact date of the murder so as to strongly suggest that indeed he could not have committed the crime?
Mr. Vizconde said that her daughter had rejected a certain politician’s son. I would assume then that she didn’t like him. Then that would go against Alfaro’s statement that Hubert (if indeed it was him Carmela was referring to) was her on/off boyfriend. As far as I remember, none of Carmela’s friends or relatives knew anything about their supposed relationship. If he was indeed just a mere suitor that she apparently did not like, why then would she leave their door open for him to enter?
Remember, the police presented 2 other groups of suspects prior to Hubert’s group. One of which were tortured to confess to the murders. That just goes to show that there are people who will do whatever it takes, even sending innocent people to jail, just so to advance themselves. So for me, it’s no surprise that Alfaro can do the same.
But the one thing that boggles my mind is if indeed they were guilty, why is it that not one out of the 6 accused, including Biong, opted to join Alfaro as state witness to save their own necks? Especially the supposed mere “look outs”?
@Gabby: I just read the Manila Times article on 2005 and it seems they indeed presented a receipt that he bought a bike on the day of the crime. But what I didn’t know is that the FBI authenticated all these US based documents. I thought it was just the entry and departure dates. It seems they did investigate if indeed Hubert was in the US at that time. I know someone mentioned that is easy to get a fake driver’s license but according to the FBI, they have a DMV record of him getting that license. I just feel if everything was faked, how lucky that the Webbs are connected to all the right people in the US to re-arrange such documents 4 years earlier.
ang maganda jan ipa lie detector sina hubert,lauro visconde at alfaro kung sino talga ang nagsasabi nga katotohanan..wag tayo mag padala ng emosyon,,may hatol na ang SC dapat respituhin natin..
@Gabby – you seem to have missed to answer my first question re: relevant dates to the case. Please tell me your assumptions on this.
Gabby (Dec 16) “Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce”.
Me (Dec 17) “Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce”. ISN’T THIS A CONCLUSION RELATED TO THE CASE? IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.
Gabby (Dec 18) “Not a conclusion, but fact that it is indeed easy to produce such materials for ANYONE. I’m not saying that it’s FACT that they purposefully created these things to strengthen his alibi…”
MY COMMENT – YES THEY ARE FACTS. But we are talking here about the case that’s why I asked you ISN’T THIS A CON-CLU-SION-RE-LA-TED-TO-THE-CASE? SO AGAIN WHAT ARE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS?
Gabby (Dec 18) “I’m just expressing opinions, possibilities and speculations for open-minded discussion.”
MY COMMENT – To be honest with you, you didn’t do a pretty good job of presenting possibilities here because it’s very obvious THAT THEY ARE ALL AGAINST THE DEFENSE. YOU SAID THAT YOU DON’T BELIEVE ALFARO’S TESTIMONY IN ITS “ENTIRETY”. Then why you didn’t present your opinion, possibilities and speculations on those parts of Alfaro’s testimonies that you have some doubts about? I don’t have to put words in your mouth BUT I KNOW HOW TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES. Please don’t make us all stupid here.
Gabby (Dec 16) “I’m merely stating possibilities here, not saying that it’s what was arranged to make a plausible alibi for Hubert Webb. I’m just emphasizing how easy it was to manipulate the system to your advantage, as long as you knew how it worked. Obviously with the Webb’s status, they knew how the system worked.”
Me (Dec 17) PLEASE TELL ME WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN BY THIS? HOW CAN INFORMATION BE MANIPULATED? BY WHOM? AND WHY THE PERSON WHO’S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CUSTODY OF THE INFORMATION WOULD LET IT BE
MANIPULATED?
Gabby (Dec 18) “What I’m saying is that the information that the U.S. had could have been manipulated to appear a certain way – that is as far as they’re concerned, Hubert Webb was on U.S. soil from March ’91-Oct ’92. This relates to the comment above asking if this weren’t true, why would the U.S. vouch for the Webbs, expressing incredulity at Pinoys being able to bribe American officials. My point is that it would be easy for the U.S. officials to certify information without having to lie or be bribed, instead use the possibly-manipulated-information that’s in front of them. When I say “manipulation of information”, I don’t mean the physical act of tampering. I’m referring more to manipulation by way of ‘setting things up’ to make it appear a certain way, or perhaps drawing attention away from something else that somebody would prefer to go unnoticed. This is all a possibility – AGAIN because of the lax information management system back then in U.S. Immigration (no record of exits) which I tried to describe in the first part of my first comment. (BTW, I think Emmy’s point in his/her above comment about green cards as well supports this idea. If it’s not the intent, Emy, I don’t mean to put words in your mouth.)”
MY COMMENT – In my experience/work experience, everytime I request for a CERTIFICATION I have to STATE THE PURPOSE OR USE of that certificate. AND THE HIGHER THE MAGNITUDE OF THE USE OF THE CERTIFICATE, THE MORE SCRUTINY IS APPLIED IN THE PROCESS AND THE HIGHER THE AUTHORITY OF THE SIGNATORY. Relating it to the case of Vizconde Massacre, obviously the US knows the repercussions of making a mistake in issuing the certificate thus they applied the strictest process of scrutinizing the entries and exits of Hubert Webb as recorded or not recorded (as you were saying is possible) in their system. You can check Emy’s link again, which by the way mostly involves corruption in handling cash and fees and BRIBERY for human smuggling – which you said is not your assumption and in fact accused me of putting words in your mouth. Please check also the cases of human smuggling reported. They involve crimes such as rape and murder. WHY DO YOU THINK THESE ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES OF HUMAN SMUGGLING WERE UNCOVERED? Isn’t it possible that because of the strict scrutiny applied in the process of issuing certificate, they were able to discover these illegal activities? But in the case of Hubert Webb, the US government was not able to discover any illegal activity that would have resulted to a manipulated entry and exit records in their computer system, thus THEY ISSUED A CERTIFICATE SIGNED BY THE US SECRETARY OF STATE! I don’t know if the AUTHENTICATION OF DOCUMENTS were also done here by Foreign Affairs of US and the Phils, but if they did, imagine how intricate the process is. I’m not just referring to tampering of documents here too, but the overall process. How can you imagine that one can acquire a certificate to his/her favor without exercising influence or making bribes as you said?
You also said that the system could be EASILY MANIPULATED “to your advantage, as long as you knew how it worked”. LET’S ASSUME you are right because of the lax system at that time “before the 9-11” you said. But please take note of this, THE SYSTEM MAY NOT HAVE PREVENTED ILLEGAL ACTIVITY BUT THERE WAS A CONTROL THAT WAS ABLE TO DETECT IT. One proof, check again Emy’s link. The control was considered weak because IT WAS NOT ABLE TO PREVENT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. BUT STILL THERE ARE OTHER CONTROLS THAT WAS ABLE TO DETECT IT, THUS ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES WERE UNCOVERED (I’m restating this, just to emphasize that in the case of Hubert Webb, there was no illegal activity or manipulated information in the system that was discovered).
Question, how many airports do they have in the US that has its Immigration Office there? And how many people enter and exit the US everyday? Does the # of reported human smuggling material for one to assume that ALL IMMIGRATION OFFICES in ALL US AIRPORTS are corrupt and can easily do human smuggling?
Gabby (Dec 16) “It’s a possibility there was a trip to the U.S. that occurred in March 1991. Clearly this arrival to the U.S. would be documented by U.S officials. BUT they would not have a record of his departure prior to June 30, 1991, the date of the crime.”
Me (Dec 17) THIS ASSUMPTION…. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? AND HOW CAN THIS BE RELEVANT TO THE CASE?
Gabby (Dec 18) “The assumption here is that there was a departure from the U.S. and a return to Manila that happened between March ’91 and June 30 ’91. The FACT is that the U.S. would NOT have this information because it is FACT that they did not record exit information back then. This is part of the system that could easily be manipulated and abused, as Emmy described in his comment above. Obviously it’s relevant to the crime since if the stated assumption were true, then his alibi of being in the U.S. on the occurrence date of the crime is shot.”
Relating this to your post on Dec 16 (re: relevant dates) – “Everything else — the video footage, receipts, etc… they are easy to produce, but in this case, after considering the possibility of the scenario above, are they really relevant? In my opinion they would be IF they were taken 1 day before the crime date, on the day of the crime or 1 day after. Does he even have a specific alibi, and someone who can vouch for his whereabouts on that specific June day?”
MY COMMENT – You said that the relevant dates here are 1 day before the crime, the crime date and a day after the crime. LET’S ASSUME AGAIN that you are right, it was possible for Hubert to exit the US on June 29 (1 day before the crime) without any record in the immigration system. Then how can you explain Freddie Webb’s and his wife’s visit to the US on June 28 which I suppose were recorded in US immigration system and presented as one of the evidences in the court that’s why it was mentioned in the SC ruling,
To quote: “On June 28, 1991, Webb’s parents visited him at Anaheim and stayed with the Brottmans. On the same day, his father introduced Honesto Aragon to his son when he came to visit.[40] On the following day, June 29, Webb, in the company of his father and Aragon went to Riverside, California, to look for a car…..”
To me, it doesn’t make sense for parents to visit a son who they know on the next day would leave the US to return to the Phils. Then just meet Hubert in the Phils.
If you don’t know the answer to this question, just admit it! It’s ok. I’m not expecting you to know everything here, (I also don’t know the answer to all the questions here) but please before you present your possibilities, speculations here, try to analyze the situation first.
To be perfectly honest with you, I feel like you are trying to make people here think that YOU DON’T TAKE A STAND ON THIS ISSUE BUT JUST MERELY PRESENTING possibilities and speculations, on the fear of being asked questions that you cannot explain in specific detail and in relation to the case. You didn’t have to be afraid of that had you presented your opinion, possibilities and speculations OBJECTIVELY. In my case, I have made myself clear I don’t believe Jessica Alfaro and I agree with the SC ruling.
It’s up to you if you’re going to answer my questions above or not. But I’m not commenting to your posts anymore unless you made it clear to us your stand on this issue, or IF YOU REALLY DON’T HAVE, until you present to us your opinion, possibilities, speculations OBJECTIVELY.
Let’s enjoy our Christmases!
suerte ni webb nakapatay nang tao at nag rape pa. Nakawala. suerte talaga.
also wonder why they wait 15 years to get a dna test? They already have dna testing early 90’s. They could have had testing when he was convicted. Could they be waiting this long so the webb can pay someone to get rid of DNA? i wonder.
I’ve heard of some people saying that Carmela was ‘pokpok’ (a whore) and that she really was expecting those convicted(now acquitted) boys to have sex with her that night. When you think about it, based on the evidence itself that the kitchen door was left open, and her room was unlocked, this could be the truth. What happened apparently was the little sister was awoken by the noise and the boys, being on drugs and not knowing any better, wrapped the younger sister in blankets so she won’t see what they’re doing. This then enraged Carmela who told the boys to leave her little sister alone. ALl these commotions awaken the mother, and then we all know what happened.
Let’s just say that the Webb’s evidences aren’t fabricated (even though some would argue that everything can be fabricated, even in the US), could it then be that the other accused, who don’t have strong evidences to prove their innocence, are really the ones who had done the crime?
And on personal observation, even after 15 years in jail, those accused still look as if they’re still taking drugs. So it seems even in jail these boys are able to get satiate their addictions and get high. Amazing!
Simula p nung dinidinig ung kaso kay hubert webb..alam ko na wala sya kasalanan… during that time i was on my highschool then.. i kept looking at his profile and the case till this writing since then…i really feel pity on what happend to him. I don’t know that time if im wrong being on his side.
now I’m married and quite happy that he is free…. but something in my heart feel sad knowing that 15 years has passed. being inside that 4 freaking corner of jail..
Hubert i still salute you.. not giving up..keep up the faith. We are always praying for you…
and your point on being a pokpok?
@Clark:
hubert had been asking for the semen sample to be tested since 1997… and the prosecution objected to it when it could have helped make a decisive decision then… they argued that the sample could have been tampered with and that the technology in the philippines wasn’t advanced enough… the prosecution can’t just say “baka tampered”—that’s not their expertise… that’s speculation… the medical examiner conducts steps to preserve the sample as best as possible and can also determine if the sample is too degraded to be useful as evidence… it appears they didn’t want it done because they knew hubert was in the states… afterall, the webbs had nothing to do with procuring the docs and certifications from the INS, FBI, etc… it was a transaction from govt to govt… no less than domingo siazon and consul leo herrera lim testified that these US govt docs were submitted to them by those institutions… govt docs are presumed to be authentic unless otherwise certified not to be… the prosecution could have easily gotten a certification from those US institutions that the travel docs were fake… tolentino then required the defense that no less than US secretary of state madeleine albright testify as to their authenticity… that wasn’t even their job to do… besides, diplomatic protocol dictates that american officials can’t testify in court… it was contentious… furthermore, it was the prosecution’s responsibility to refute the authenticity of the docs… but they never bothered to because they knew they were real… there are so many other issues regarding the case that are not included in the SC decision… but the points they cite are crystal clear
http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2010/december2010/176389.htm
@donna: tangina ka kwentong barbero ka… get some facts and evidence… huwag na huwag kang mag-aanak para hindi na dumami ang mga katulad mo sa pilipinas… kaya hindi tayo umaasenso… chismosa!!! kilala kita, ikaw yung addict na pokpok na tumatambay dun sa kanto ng rfc sa las pinas… sa halagang bente pesos high ka na sa rugby tapos kung sino-sinong tricycle driver chinuchupa mo. yan! ganyan level ng utak mo chismosa ka! walang kwenta! gago! evidence that the kitchen door was left open—hoy si alfaro lang nagsabi nun at alam na nating lahat na walang kwenta ang mga kwento ni alfaro!!! tangang bobo! magbasa ka nga! basahin mo yung decision ng SC… kung di mo pa maintindihan yun ewan ko na lang…
@Clark
the point in that is, if indeed Carmela was that kind of a girl, and if indeed she knows and/or expects these spoiled brats coming to her house for a night of fun, then most probably they’ve really put behind bars the true perpetrators of the crime, and now they’re free…
@Michelle
Yes I’ve read the SC decision, and it was stated there that Jessica Alfaro’s story was supposedly ‘manufactured’ according to the actual evidence/scene of the crime that the NBI found on that night of July 1991. Thus the kitchen door being open is not just Alfaro’s invented story, this was supported by actual evidence.
and yeah, look who’s talking like a cheap rumor-mongering bitch… it’s people like you who talk nonsense and incite unnecessary confusion through poor choice of venomous words that are a bane to this country… i pity you Michelle…
@donna:
tinagalog ko lang para masmalutong, bagay sayo…
look at you, with absolutely no respect for the dead—calling carmella a “pok-pok” without any evidence at all. as much as i believe hubert webb is innocent—i don’t go around defiling the memory of the victims… respect begets respect and you deserve every word of what i said.
you and your speculations—“this COULD be the truth. his could be the truth. What happened APPARENTLY was the little sister was awoken by the noise and the boys, being on drugs and not knowing any better, wrapped the younger sister in blankets so she won’t see what they’re doing. This then enraged Carmela who told the boys to leave her little sister alone. ALl these commotions awaken the mother, and then we all know what happened.”… BASELESS PRESUMPTIONS AND ALTOGETHER LUDICROUS. i don’t pity you, i loathe your kind!
as we know, alfaro being an nbi asset, and coached by the nbi at that, simply patterned her story after confessions made by previous suspects who were later released, and after details of the crime that she had been privy to. yet you peddle that “door left open” thing as though alfaro was actually there. and as if you don’t know that alfaro testified that jennifer had allegedly leaped onto hubert. it’s either you believe alfaro or you don’t… but what you’re doing is you’re further embellishing her lies. you’re a sick motherfucker aren’t you?!
personal observation about the boys being on drugs??? more kwentong barbero. you’re worse than the actual kilers. you kill the victims—the Viscondes and the innocent boys a hundred times over with your accusations. i never thought i’d be capable of saying this but i hope the real killers do the same thing to you.
@michelle
I never stated anything as factual, those are just opinions, aren’t all writings here but opinions? And you must agree that Hubert and the others aren’t proven innocent either, it just so happened that out of the blue, the Webbs suddenly raised the issue of the DNA testing only to find out that those semen samples are missing, and then using that as an excuse to file for acquittal. Don’t you find that strange at all? You must not believe everything you see in the media, nor everything that the SC has said. For goodness sake, the lower courts and Court of Appeals has already convicted the suspects, and during those times, the people was generally perceived to believe that indeed Webb and the others were guilty. And now, SC is saying Alfaro is not to be trusted? But who are the government fooling? You can’t just classify people whether they believe in Alfaro or not, for really her character begs a lot for people to truly trust her, but then SC itself said that the boys aren’t innocent, they’re just not guilty. For all we know some of the things that Alfaro said are actually true! We must not let that thinking that says Alfaro is a complete liar cloud our intelligible minds into concluding that the convicts aren’t guilty. They’re going to open the case again and reportedly there are people, bothered by their conscience, that are now willing to testify that Hubert was in the Philippines during the time of the crime in 1991.
Let’s try to be at least objective in our opinions that we write here. Let’s not use trivial words that only show the readers what kind of person you are, the topic is the Webbs/SC decision, the topic is not you nor me. It is said that ‘Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.’ It means that whatever is in your heart determines what you say. Now, if you do harbor deep feelings of sadness, sorrow and bitterness, well, at least do not show it here.
It’s the season of love and happiness, may you be free from all the bad things that disturbs your mind and heart right now, and may you and your family be blessed! Merry Christmas to you Michelle! Enjoy the holidays :)
as i read some comments nakakatuwa… but after reading this link my sympathy goes to Mr. Lauro V. i try to balance both party. Lets assume that J. Alfaro is a creation. And lets assume that H. Webb was frame up… just try to read this article…
http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2010/december2010/176389_villarama.htm
for this –
(d) Philippine passport
The passport of accused-appellant Webb produced in evidence, and the inscriptions appearing thereon, also offer little support of Webb’s alibi. Be it noted that what appears on record is only the photocopy of the pages of Webb’s passport. The Court therefore can only rely on the appreciation of the trial court as regards the authenticity of the passport and the marks appearing thereon, as it is the trial court that had the exclusive opportunity to view at first hand the original of the document, and determine for itself whether the same is entitled to any weight in evidence.
Why all hard copy evidence presented by Webb’s camp are all photocopy?
From number 143 of this link – http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2010/december2010/176389_villarama.htm
It is worthy of note I note that the original of Webb’s passport was not offered in evidence and made part of the records, which only gives credence to the prosecution’s allegation that it bore signs of tampering and irregularities. And as earlier mentioned, the much vaunted US-INS second certification dated August 31, 1995 based on a mere computer print-out from the Non-immigrant Information System (Exhibit “213-1-D”) retrieved from the US- INS Archives in Washington, and the accompanying certifications, have little probative value, the truth of their contents had not been testified to by the persons who issued the same. Moreover, the issuance of this certification only a couple of weeks after the August 10, 1995 US-INS Office in San Francisco was issued, only raised questions as to its accuracy. Said earlier certification through Debora A. Farmer stated that:
[a]fter diligent search no record is found to exist in the records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The search included a review of the Service automated and nonautomated records system; there is no evidence of any lawful admission to the United States as an immigrant, or as a nonimmigrant, relating to Hubert P. Webb, born November 7, 1968, in the Philippines. The records searched are current as of July 1, 1995 for the immigrants and non immigrants.
The above finding was relayed by Thomas Schiltgen, District Director of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, San Francisco to Ms. Teresita V. Marzan, Consul General of the Philippines:
SUBJECT: WEBB, HUBERT
RE: Hubert Jeffrey Webb
Dear Requester:
YOUR REQUEST WAS RECEIVED BY THIS OFFICE ON 07/10/95.
WE HAVE COMPLETED OUR SEARCH FOR RECORDS RESPONSIVE TO YOUR REQUEST BUT DID NOT LOCATE ANY. IF YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE RECORDS WITHIN THE SCOPE OF YOUR REQUEST, AND CAN PROVIDE US WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, WE WILL CONDUCT ANOTHER SEARCH. IF YOU ELECT TO REQUEST ANOTHER SEARCH, WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU NOT FOLLOW THE APPEALS PROCEDURE DESCRIBED BELOW UNTIL WE HAVE COMPLETED THAT SEARCH.
YOU MAY APPEAL THE FINDING IN THIS MATTER BY WRITING TO THE OFFICE OF INFORMATION AND PRIVACY, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, SUITE 570, 1310 G. STREET, N.W., FLAG BUILDING, WASHINGTON D.C., 20530 WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS OF RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER. YOUR LETTER SHOULD REFERENCE THE INS CONTROL NUMBER ABOVE AND THE LETTER AND THE ENVELOPE SHOULD BE CLEARLY MARKED FOIA/PA APPEAL.
SINCERELY,
(SGD.) DISTRICT DIRECTOR[144] [emphasis supplied]
pokpok or no pokpok no one has the right to take anyones life.
@Michelle
Why was there no outcry for dna testing when he was convicted? I know you mentioned that they ask for testing in 1997. As a parent if my son was wrongly convicted I would do everything to help my son. I did not see any of it in this case. Bringing food to prison twice a week is not the only thing I would do to help my son. Sorry, I am with Donna regarding the DNA argument. They only raised it when it was missing. Makes me wonder.
With that kind of justice system I would be scared to live here. Not because of the wrongly conviction but the release of the convicted.
Given the many stories that already came out as a result of Webb’s acquittal after 15 years in jail, perhaps it would be better for all of us to re-examine the case with fresh eyes especially since so many facts have already surfaced since 1995. I’m sure many of you will agree that time or hindsight does allow people to see things more clearly. So let’s look at some of the facts, here broken down by a rough timeline so we have a clearer perspective of the events as they happened chronologically:
Pre-1991 (Prior to the Vizconde Massacre)
• Hubert Webb lived in BF with his parents and siblings, played basketball with Pyke Fernandez and in between school in St. Benilde, attended drinking sessions with friends, occasionally took drugs and frequented popular discos like Faces, Mars and Euphoria (essentially doing what most young people did at that age and within that community).
• Lauro Vizconde, meanwhile, lived with wife Estrellita and children, Carmela and Jennifer, in his father-in-law’s house, apparently dependent on the graces of Estrellita’s father as Lauro was not a reliable breadwinner. Eventually the two separate, though not legally. In 1988, Lauro Vizconde goes to the United States, supposedly on an errand to find a school for Carmela (as he told Cheche Lazaro in her TV documentary). He does not come home for the next three years or not until the Vizconde Massacre happened. When asked what he did in all that time he was in the USA, he vaguely told Cheche Lazaro that he was “helping” out in his cousin’s restaurant. In what capacity he didn’t say. He said that even while he was away, he stayed in constant touch with his children via telephone and said that he even spoke to Carmela on the phone not long before the murders during which, he claimed, she revealed that she had turned down a suitor who is a son of a politician. Investigations show that the Vizcondes did not have a telephone installed during the time of the murders.
• Some time after Lauro Vizconde separated from his wife and children and traveled to the USA, Estrellita sells a Valenzuela property that she bought from her father for a token amount (P135,000. if I’m not mistaken). She then sold the lot for P3 million. Estrellita used part of it to buy the property in BF Homes and a car. The remaining P1.5 million was deposited in the bank. Again, in Cheche Lazaro’s interview, Mr. Vizconde revealed that he was not aware that his wife had bought a house in BF and had, in fact, been living there for some time with their daughters. He justified this by saying that the house was their “surprise” to him.
• Senator Freddie Webb investigates a case involving the escape of 11 Indian nationals found to be operating a large laboratory that manufactures raw ingredients for shabu. The NBI was under investigation for bungling the case and allowing the Indian nationals to escape. The rumor was that a high-ranking government official was in cahoots with the suspected drug ring and strings were pulled within the NBI to allow the Indians to escape.
• Jessica Alfaro, already an NBI asset known for snitching on drug pushers was rebuked by an NBI handler for no longer “earning her keep” because she had not helped the NBI solve a case in a while. Meanwhile, her brother Patrick, also a drug addict, was picked up by the NBI for investigation.
JUNE 30, 1991. ESTRELLITA, CARMELA AND JENIFFER VIZCONDE ARE BRUTALLY MURDERED INSIDE THEIR PARAÑAQUE HOME
1991-1995
• Police arrested a group of Akyat-Bahay Gang members and charged them with the murder of the Vizcondes but the RTC judge threw out the case arguing that the testimonies of the witnesses were inadmissible since they were taken under force and coercion.
• Since then, many suspects were investigated without success. The case continued to fester with the NBI. The pressure was on for them to solve the case.
• In August 1995 the NBI announced that it had solved the case and presented Jessica Alfaro as its key eye-witness. Alfaro accused Hubert Webb and several others for the rape and murder of Carmela and the murder of Estrellita and Jennifer. Based on Alfaro’s testimony, a case was formally filed against Webb et al.
• NBI Director Antonio Carpio dies during the Vizconde investigation after a short stint in office. Mariano Mison takes over as NBI Director and takes on the Vizconde investigation. In Cheche Lazaro’s interview, he initially thought that the case against Webb and his group was weak, as he allegedly explained to Carpio before his death. He also told Cheche that on the day of his appointment, he received a call from President Ramos who told him to ensure that the Vizconde case is solved.
• Despite Alfaro’s inconsistent affidavits and dismal performance in identifying the witnesses, the weak testimonies of the BF Homes guards and the Webb’s laundrywoman (during cross-examination of her recollection of what happened that month of June 1991 the maid said she didn’t remember seeing dust falling from the sky in June 1991. Webb argues that had she really been in Manila at that time she would have remembered it since that was the time of the Pinatubo ash fall when BF Homes and, indeed, the entire Metro was covered in volcanic ash), the NBI insists that their case against Webb and company is airtight. Meanwhile, presiding Judge Amelita Tolentino refuses to admit voluminous documentary evidence that aim to prove Hubert Webb was in the United States at the time of the murders.
• Media and public opinion against Hubert Webb and his other co-accused as well as Senator Freddie Webb remain virulent throughout the trial. Senator Webb lost his re-election bid in 1998.
• On January 6, 2000 Judge Tolentino sentences Hubert Webb et al to life imprisonment for the murder of Estrellita and Jennifer Vizconde and the murder and rape of Carmela Vizconde.
AFTER SERVING 15 YEARS IN PRISON HUBERT WEBB AND THE SIX ACCUSED ARE ACQUITTED BY THE SUPREME COURT ON DECEMBER 2010 DUE TO FAILURE OF THE PROSECUTION TO PROVE THAT WEBB AND COMPANY COMMITTED THE CRIME BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT
December 2010: 19 Years After the Vizconde Massacre, Where Are They Now?
• Lauro Vizconde continues to live in the BF Homes property after winning a court case filed against him by his in-laws who claim that Estrellita’s estate (BH Homes house and P1.5 million) should be divided among Estrellita’s siblings as Lauro Vizconde did not have anything to do with the purchase of the house and the money in the bank since everything was a direct result of selling the Valenzuela property that Estrellita’s father owned and gave Estrellita for a token amount. Estrellita’s relatives claimed that Vizconde did not have the capacity to pay for such a house having no substantial income at the time of the purchase. The lower courts and the Court of Appeals ruled against Lauro Vizconde but he appealed the case with the Supreme Court with the help of Senator Rene Cayetano and the SC ruled in his favor. Vizconde is also one of the founding members of the Volunteers Against Crime and Corruption of which former First Gentleman Mike Arroyo was a consultant. It was former FG Mike Arroyo who gave him a position as one of the Board of Directors of IBC-13 and a consultant of PAGCOR—positions which he now currently holds.
• Mariano Mison has since retired from the NBI but not before being hailed as the one that solved the “crime of the century”
• Vizconde’s counsel, Rene Cayetano, won the elections as senator after the highly-publicized Vizconde case. His name and reputation has since haloed to his two children, Pia and Alan, who have also been elected to the Senate after his death.
• Jessica Alfaro was sent to the USA under the NBI’s witness protection program. She apparently remains in the USA to this day.
• None of the 11 Indian nationals were ever caught and brought to justice.
• Hubert Webb and his other co-accused are starting to rebuild their lives after serving 15 years in prison.
NOW MY QUESTION IS: 19 YEARS AFTER IT HAPPENED, WHO DO YOU SUPPOSE WERE THE REAL WINNERS IN THE VIZCONDE CASE?
This is quality information you shared. Great work Joyce.. It shed some light in the case.
joyce ;) verrry interesting stuff on estrellita’s side of the vizconde family
This is quite interesting…
[Lauro Vizconde continues to live in the BF Homes property after winning a court case filed against him by his in-laws who claim that Estrellita’s estate (BH Homes house and P1.5 million) should be divided among Estrellita’s siblings as Lauro Vizconde did not have anything to do with the purchase of the house and the money in the bank since everything was a direct result of selling the Valenzuela property that Estrellita’s father owned and gave Estrellita for a token amount. Estrellita’s relatives claimed that Vizconde did not have the capacity to pay for such a house having no substantial income at the time of the purchase. The lower courts and the Court of Appeals ruled against Lauro Vizconde but he appealed the case with the Supreme Court with the help of Senator Rene Cayetano and the SC ruled in his favor.
– by Joyce]
Quite interesting that we must read the SCotPH decision:
http://www.lawphil.net/judjuris/juri1998/feb1998/gr_118449_1998.html
The Parañaque property was never “up for grabs.” Simply put, Lauro rightfully inherited the property.
Recall that Estrellita died before their daughters, as such, Lauro already inherited (without a will and testament) part of Estrellita’s property. But soon after, their daughters also died leaving their share to their dad also. Estrellita’s property then were divided equally through an out-of-court settlement between her parents, Rafael and Salud, and her husband, Lauro . The Parañaque property and the car (coming from proceeds of the sale of the Valenzuela property) were given to Lauro “with Rafael and Salud waiving all their ‘claims, rights, ownership and participation as heirs’ in the said properties.”
The problem of inheritance arose when Estrellita’s dad, Rafael, died. Rafael’s intestate (without a will and testament) estate needs to be divided among the wife and sons and daughter.
The SCotPH enumerated five (5) reasons why they favored Lauro Vizconde…
The SCotPH found the probate court, as well as respondent Court of Appeals, committed reversible errors. (Copy-pastings from the decision were done here.)
(1) The probate court erred in ordering the inclusion of Lauro Vizconde in the intestate estate proceeding. Lauro, a son-in-law of Rafael (Estrellita’s dad), is not one of Rafael’s compulsory heirs.
With respect to Rafael’s estate, therefore, Lauro who was not even shown to be a creditor of Rafael is considered a third person or a stranger. As such, Lauro may not be dragged into the intestate estate proceeding. Neither may he be permitted or allowed to intervene as he has no personality or interest in the said proceeding, which Lauro correctly argued in his manifestation.
(2) As a rule, the probate court may pass upon and determine the title or ownership of a property which may or may not be included in the estate proceedings. Such determination is provisional in character and is subject to final decision in a separate action to resolve title. In the case at bench, however, we note that the probate court went beyond the scope of its jurisdiction when it proceeded to determine the validity of the sale of the Valenzuela property between Rafael and Estrellita and ruled that the transfer of the subject property between the concerned parties was gratuitous. The interpretation of the deed and the true intent of the contracting parties, as well as the presence or absence of consideration, are matters outside the probate court’s jurisdiction. These issues should be ventilated in an appropriate action.
(3) The order of the probate court subjecting the Parañaque property to collation is premature. Records indicate that the intestate estate proceedings is still in its initiatory stage. We find nothing herein to indicate that the legitime of any of Rafael’s heirs has been impaired to warrant collation. (Meaning that Estrellita’s mother and her siblings have not yet presented evidence to signify that they were prejudiced by the “donation” of Valenzuela property by her dad to her.)
(4) Even on the assumption that collation is appropriate in this case the probate court, nonetheless, made a reversible error in ordering collation of the Parañaque property. We note that what was transferred to Estrellita, by way of deed of sale, is the Valenzuela property. The Parañaque property which Estrellita acquired by using the proceeds of the sale of the Valenzuela property does not become collationable simply by reason thereof. Indeed, collation of the Parañaque property has no statutory basis. The order of the probate court presupposes that the Parañaque property was gratuitously conveyed by Rafael to Estrellita. Records indicate, however, that the Parañaque property was conveyed for and in consideration of P900,000.00, by Premier Homes, Inc., to Estrellita. Rafael, the decedent, has no participation therein, and Lauro who inherited and is now the present owner of the Parañaque property is not one of Rafael’s heirs. Thus, the probate court’s order of collation against Lauro is unwarranted for the obligation to collate is lodged with Estrellita, the heir, and not to Lauro who does not have any interest in Rafael’s estate. As it stands, collation of the Parañaque property is improper for, to repeat, collation covers only properties gratuitously given by the decedent during his lifetime to his compulsory heirs which fact does not obtain anent the transfer of the Parañaque property. Moreover, Rafael, in a public instrument, voluntarily and willfully waived any “claims, rights, ownership and participation as heir” in the Parañaque property.
(5) Finally, it is futile for the probate court to ascertain whether or not the Valenzuela property may be brought to collation. Estrellita, it should be stressed, died ahead of Rafael. In fact, it was Rafael who inherited from Estrellita an amount more than the value of the Valenzuela property. Hence, even assuming that the Valenzuela property may be collated collation may not be allowed as the value of the Valenzuela property has long been returned to the estate of Rafael. Therefore, any determination by the probate court on the matter serves no valid and binding purpose.
Some stories shown in Crime and Investigation Network (CI channel) may give us a hint that the one who inherited something may prove to be the perpetrator of the crime…
Forgot to mention that a year after ruling on Vizconde case, Judge Amelita Tolentino was appointed Associate Justice of the Court of Appeals on August 27, 2001.
Thanks for posting Baycas. More fodder for the discussion indeed. The law rightfully upheld Lauro, as husband and father, automatic legal heir of the deceased. The argument would seem cut and dried from the beginning.
However, in the case of Estrellita’s estate and Lauro Vizconde, I think what’s important to note is that:
LAURO PRIOR TO THE MASSACRE HAD NO FINANCIAL MEANS TO BUY THE BF PROPERTY HAVING NO SUSTAINABLE INCOME TO SPEAK OF.
It’s really not the legal aspects of how he came to inherit the properties and money that interest me so much as the issue behind it. The house was not bought with Lauro’s money. That, along with the car and the money in the bank actually came from the sale of the Valenzuela property which Estrellita got from her father for a song. Moreover, Estrellita and Lauro were already estranged when she purchased the property.
I’m just trying to imagine the situation if, for instance, Estrellita was my sister. So she and husband Lauro live with our father because Lauro is unable to provide them a home of their own. (Not to be chauvinistic but I think that is the minimum expectation from a husband and father–to be able to provide his wife and children a home of their own–whether it be owned or rented).
Eventually my sister separate from her husband for reasons one can only guess at.
He leaves for the US and my sister buys property for herself and her two children using proceeds from the sale of a property that my father practically gave them. For three years, we do not see our brother-in-law. Meanwhile, my sister continues living her life and supporting her children without him.
Then come the massacre and Lauro comes home and inherits everything.
Even when neither myself nor my siblings have any real interest in Estrellita’s estate, being able to support ourselves without it, I would probably feel a wee bit resentful at my brother-in-law considering that during my sister’s lifetime he had benefited from her by being allowed to live in our father’s home, and even in death continues to benefit from our family, indirectly by inheriting an estate that came about because of my father’s property.
If Estrellita and the two children hadn’t died as gruesomely and as controversially as they did, where would Lauro be now, I wonder.
The points you raised here are something to ponder at but I really can’t swallow the theory that Lauro hired people to kill his own family. It’s completely absurd! He would let his 18yr old daughter be raped first before getting killed then have his 7 yr old daughter stabbed 19 times for that property and 1.5 million cash. Hiring people to kill his wife can be a possibility since they were no longer together but involving the children is just impossible.
kapatid ni hubert webb ang tunay na salarin. pinabayaan lang nila si hubert webb ang ituro para malusot ang kapatid nito. dahil alam nila matibay ebidensiya nila dahil hindi talaga si hubert gumawa kundi ang kapatid niya na tinatawag na bagyo. kilala si hubert na addict pero mas kilala sa sobrang pagka addict kapatid nito na hawig sa kanya at sobrang yabang. akala ng gwardiya at katulong at ni alfaro si hubert nakita nila. bakit hindi nila nilalabas sa media puro si fritz at jason lang bakit yong isang gago tinatago. tama din lang na makulong si hubert baka tumulad pa ito sa kuya niya ang pumatay kung sa loob nga ng bilanguan sige pa rin shabu nila halata sa panalitaan ang bibig adik na adik. laki kinita ng warden laki ng halaga tuwing nilalabas nila si hubert. sabi sabi lang yong ayaw na niya lumabas at babalik din lang sa kulungan pero katotohanan weekly nasa labas si hubert. kay fredie webb at asawa nito alam niyo ang katotohanan kadugo niyo ang tunay na salarin.
to Sammy Rogero:
gaano ka naman ka-sigurado dyan sa mga sinasabi mo? may ebidensya ka ba na kapatid niyang tinutukoy mo yung gumawa? pano mo nalaman? nandun ka ba nung naganap yung krimen? ungas ka pala eh, kung may alam ka, bakit di ka lumantad nung trial non?
isa ka ring sira-ulong gustong may masabi lang o makapanira lang eh..
don’t get by your emotions.. maghain ka ng proof para maniwala mga reader sayo.
^Yung bang Mike Webb na hindi visible sa mga gatherings nila
And now this…
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20101229-311557/Ex-NBI-agent-insists-Alfaro-spoke-truth-about-massacre
Retired NBI agent Pedro Rivera, in his first media interview after the Supreme Court acquitted Webb and his co-accused two weeks ago, insisted on Wednesday that his former colleague Artemio Sacaguing lied when he testified that Alfaro was an NBI asset and not a credible eyewitness.
Rivera also assailed former NBI chief Epimaco Velasco for contradicting the statement of another former NBI director, Mariano Mison, about Alfaro’s credibility
Rivera stood by his belief that Alfaro was with Webb and five others when the crime occurred, saying her testimony was consistent with the physical evidences they gathered.
####
and this…
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20101229-311522/Vizconde-asks-SC-to-reconsider-acquittal-of-Webb-6-others
Acosta said the high court departed from its long line of decisions where it always pointed out that “in a criminal case, factual findings of the trial court are generally accorded great weight and respect on appeal especially when such findings are supported by substantial evidence on record.”
She said that while the high court acknowledged that star witness Jessica Alfaro can lie “with such abundant details some of which even tallied with the physical evidence at the scene of the crime,” it did not say that Alfaro actually lied and failed to specify the alleged lies she told in court.
Acosta explained that while the high court took note of Alfaro being an asset of the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) where she can gain access to information on the progress of the investigation in the Vizconde case, it relied on the testimony of Atty. Artemio Sacaguing, an NBI official who is a witness for the defense.
Vizconde, in his petition, also stressed that there was nothing in the documents, video footage, pictures, receipts, pay checks and even airline tickets and passenger manifest, passports that would show that Webb was actually in the US when the crime occurred.
The airline ticket, as well as the passport which was presented in court is inadmissible because they are photocopies and the original was never presented, Acosta said.
“Basic is the rule that when the subject of inquiry is the contents of a document, no evidence is admissible other than the original document itself,” Acosta said.
Petitioner also said that the passport, based on the photograph, appeared tampered due to the soiled appearance of some pages, non-alignment of perforated passport number, Webb’s different signatures and Webb, in the photo is wearing a collarless shirt which is prohibited by the Department of Foreign Affairs.
#&*&#*&#*&#*&*#&*#&*#&
It seems the SC decision to acquit the convicts were solely based on a testimony by Atty. Artemio Sacaguing, an NBI official who is a witness for the defense(Webb, et al). Of course a witness for the defense would say things ‘in defense’ of the accused. As to why the SC made its decision to acquit the convicts based solely on Sacaguing’s testimony is a big question mark there already. SC didn’t even bother to check Sacaguing’s credibility. Makes me believe all the more that something really fishy happened that resulted to this acquittal.
also consider this line:
“…the high court departed from its long line of decisions where it always pointed out that “in a criminal case, factual findings of the trial court are generally accorded great weight and respect on appeal especially when such findings are supported by substantial evidence on record.” — if this is so, what was so special about the convicts that made those 7 judges rule otherwise? hmm…
thank you donna!! Six people got away with murder with the help of the philippine supreme court.
De Lima is quoted as saying:
“It does not matter if Hubert returns to jail or not. What is important is to confirm that they (Webb and cohorts) were really the ones who did it.”
It’s incredible that the Justice secretary would publicly proclaim her extreme bias against Hubert Webb et al.
She is basically saying that despite the SC ruling, Hubert is guilty and that she will use her taxpayer-funded public office to prove this.
She is supposed to be an impartial public official who will carefully weigh the evidence before making a conclusion – that is why there is a reinvestigation ordered by the president.
Instead, it seems she has already reached the conclusion and will selectively choose the evidence to prove it.
If what Joyce has written above is correct, then the one person who gained the greatest material benefit from the death of the Vizconde women is Lauro Vizconde.
As a matter of standard operating procedure, shouldn’t he have been included among those who had to undergo preliminary investigation, at the very least?
I know he would have had an alibi that I personally would have thought to be very strong, that is that he was in the US at the time of the crime.
But we all know now that such an alibi, even if corroborated by a preponderance of testimony and official government documentation, is considered to be a weak defense, and in fact can be summarily thrown out by the trial judge.
So again, the question is: why was this angle not considered by the investigators?
And now that there is a reinvestigation, shouldn’t this question be raised now, to be answered by the authorities?
If Lauro really planned to kill his family for fortune. he would have let this rest. When it came to a halt. Most real perps-for-profit dont want the media attention. They just want the loot.
This guy was working in the US which goes into his character as a hard-working person who wouldn’t short cut his gains.
I investigate crimes in but not in your country. Usually I need the person in front of me and I ask pertinent questions- many of which no one has ever asked of this case.
I have a friend who is a conspiracy theorist. This is his theory:
Lauro Visconde masterminded the crime. He had known that Webb and his group were seeing Carmela Visconde. So he hired somebody to do the job, knowing that there will be many suspects but not him, :).
@csa1982
“Michael, his brother, was my batch mate and I know for a fact that there are no twins in the Webb siblings.”
Why is this Michael Webb not listed as among Freddie Webb’s children.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Freddie_Webb?qsrc=3044
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This is truly a mind blowing, confusing, and full of twists case. I being impartial and unbiased in this case tried to see things with clarity as much as possible. When you look at the six convicted men headed by Hubert Webb, anyone can notice that they are capable of carrying out this massacre. Why? They are spoiled brats who are provided with everything they want by their rich and influential families which usually results to over confidence for the children to do whatever they want thinking they can get away from it. They have history of drug use and at their age, chasing over women is a natural instinct. The question is, was the prosecution able to prove that Hubert Webb was courting Carmela Vizconde because it seems to me, that Carmela knew Hubert based on the testimony of Jessica Alfaro. According to Alfaro, she was being used as a “bridge” by Hubert to court Carmela. If there were witnesses that could prove that they knew each other before the crime happened, then it would have been a solid evidence. It’s not only Alfaro’s testimony that pins down Webb but what confuses me really is that even the maids of the Webb family say that Hubert was in the Philippines when the crime happened and one of them even washed his blood stained shirt on the night of the massacre. Alfaro could have been indeed an NBI asset but could have the maids been paid also? If so, why? Why is the NBI after the Webb family? Was it politics? Why did it take long for Alfaro to come out? Were they planning before hand to concoct this story? Does Alfaro really knew Hubert’s gang before the crime happened? There should have been witnesses to their friendship and their allegedly pot sessions.
Now the defense of Webb is pretty simple. He was not in the Philippines when the crime happened. I agree with one of the judges who reviewed the case in the Supreme Court that people can lie and make up stories while official documents carry out more accuracy of the truth. But the documents can be falsified also? Isn’t it? But the problem is that the documents being shown by the defense are authenticated by the U.S. gov’t which I strongly doubt to have been influenced by former Senator Freddie Webb. It’s just plain impossible! The U.S. gov’t won’t fake documents just for a Senator’s son in the Philippines. What I don’t understand with the Vizconde family’s relatives is that why they burned the clothes of the three victims. I don’t get it. How can you be that stupid? It was said that Gerardo Biong was the first investigator to come in the crime scene. Where is the SOCO? They are more equipped in gathering the evidence than a cop like Biong. But according to Alfaro, the group purposely called up Biong after the gang rape and massacre for the clean up. If people can lie, the documents can be faked then fingerprints or DNA is the only route left. Another problem is that the semen specimen found on Carmela is missing. Is the NBI purposely hiding the evidence for the people not to know the truth that they framed up Hubert Webb and his gang? There are so many questions. Who could be Senator Webb’s enemy that they wanted Hubert to be nailed as the prime suspect? And the most important question is.. if it’s not Hubert Webb’s gang or the Akyat Bahay syndicate then who could have committed this massacre? Another strange point I saw is that the defense strongly concentrated on Hubert Webb alone and the other accused remained silent and depended their innocence to Hubert Webb’s innocence. Why? Some of them claim that they don’t know each other. Why would you not raise your own personal point that you don’t know these people and that you’re innocent? Because if the rest are found guilty, you are also guilty. Let’s not forget there are even two more suspects that are at large namely Don Ventura and Joey Filart who has a relative that is a police general. These two were never found. Why did they hide?
After the said points above, many respected personalities gave their opinions regarding this matter. Ramon Tulfo, the eldest of the crime fighting siblings said he will retire as a columnist and become a hermit if Webb is indeed guilty. Garry Valenciano, the spiritual pop artist, said he saw Webb in the US but turns out his sighting of Webb was four months after the crime which gives ample time for Hubert to return to the US but the documents say otherwise that he never left the US until October of 1992. Then Winnie Monsod, the frustrated politician also claims that Webb is innocent. All of them like others who believe Hubert was in the US rely on the documents provided by the U.S. gov’t. You can’t blame them because that’s a pretty solid proof. Now here is my conclusion based on all the points I raised earlier. If indeed Hubert was in the US then that does not mean that the rest of the gang like Lejano, Fernandez, Peter Estrada, Rodriguez, Gatchalian and so is Biong are innocent of the crime. But the confusing part is that Hubert was really singled out by Alfaro to be the first one to rape Carmela. I really feel that drug addicts did this massacre. Why? Carmela was the prime target of the crime. She was the only one sexually abused and the mother and baby sister were just sort of a collateral damage. This could not have been robbery or personal grudge. This is no doubt done by people like Hubert Webb’s gang. I also strongly feel that Gerardo Biong was an accessory to the crime because any sane police officer will not do the things he did like not securing the area until the SOCO arrives or at least taking care of the evidence by prohibiting the stupid ignorant relatives to burn important things in the crime scene. The first thing Biong should have done if he was indeed innocent was to call up the SOCO and his superiors to the crime scene which he NEVER did. He just took photographs and let the stupid ignorant relatives do the clean up. This is clearly not the protocol for any investigator who wanted the truth to come out which then means that Alfaro’s testimony is correct. If Biong was doing the cover up then it only means that an influential person was behind this. Connecting the dots now.. adding the Webb maids and the BF Homes’ security guards identifying him and Filart and Ventura being gone.. I personally think and feel that HUBERT WEBB IS INDEED GUILTY OF THE VIZCONDE MASSACRE. The only problem is the documents proving that he was in the US between March 91 up to October 92. I will only believe he was there if US officials come to the Phils. to testify its authenticity. Like I said anything is possible if the price is right. All they needed probably is an US Immigration officer willing to get paid for doctoring the documents. They all know that Heafner and the then Secretary of State Albright won’t testify in a Philippine court because it’s against US protocols. I say this so because how can the entire gang DEPEND on Hubert Webb’s alibi if they knew they were innocent. If they were really innocent, they should have their own alibis and defense on why they shouldn’t be suspects for this massacre. The points is if each one of them have their alibis presented to the court, the prosecution can easily find discrepancies and inconsistencies that will further prove their guilt to the court so the defense lawyers preferred to stick with only one scenario and that is Webb’s stay in US. That’s it. I feel Alfaro even if she’s a drug addict and a confirmed NBI informant has more credibility because she had conviction on her story and it’s believable. She was part of this drug addict group and witnessed the massacre and rape. The attacks on her claims being rehearsed is normal. Any drug addict needs to know how she can tell her story in a proper way. The point is she remembers clearly what had happened and fingers out Biong to be an accessory which makes ABSOLUTE sense. My opinion is: HUBERT WEBB AND HIS GANG INCLUDING THE TWO AT LARGE ARE GUILTY BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT…
Last night, I kept reading the entire summary of this case until dawn. Once I started reading, I couldn’t stop anymore. http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2010/december2010/176389_villarama.htm This is the link I exhausted upon. I studied the case point by point and looked at it in a very unbiased and impartial way. One thing I noticed is that when you read the tetimony of Jessica Alfaro, you will see that she was really present during the massacre. She knows every minute detail of the night of June 29, 1991. I have to admit that reading her narration sent cold shivers down to my spine. It’s actually scary! Her point that he only met Hubert Webb, Lejano, Fernandez, Rodriguez, Filart during the night of the murder is interesting. It means to say these people really don’t know who Jessica Alfaro is. She was only linked to the group through her boyfriend Peter Estrada while Artemio “Dong” Ventura was someone they constantly bought drugs from. Another claim she made is that Webb actually liked Carmela very much and only ordered Alfaro to tell her that Hubert was waiting for her outside the house. He had still nice intentions towards her until the revelation of Alfaro that she saw Carmela dropped a man in Aguirre avenue through her car the second time they returned. It was only then that Webb got mad presumably because of jealousy that he decided to rape Carmela. The words he uttered “Pipilahan natin si Carmela, ako ang mauuna” was significant while Lejano saying “ako ang susunod” was also vital. One can notice with the transcripts of the case that the 3 vehicles went back and forth from the Vizconde residence to Ayala Alabang Commercial center. They sniffed drugs thrice that night and were really high.
Now from what I notice with the rest of the narration that when Hubert entered the house and was faced by Carmela, Carmela actually expected Hubert coming that night since Alfaro told her earlier that Hubert was waiting for her and Carmela told them to just come back. I presume that at that time, Carmela’s current boyfriend was inside her home. After dropping the guy home, she returns to her place leaving the gate open. Alfaro said that Hubert and Carmela stared at each other for some time before vanishing inside the house. Now, let’s break down every detail of what had happened after that and what were the positions of every person during the massacre. In my opinion, Artemio “Dong” Ventura played a very significant role in the massacre as he planned out everything. The turning off of the bulb at the garage as he stepped over Carmela’s car to instill darkness in front of the house was one. He taking out something from the drawer of the kitchen was another.(presumably the knife used in the massacre). He ordering Alfaro to find keys inside the purse and planning out the escape was also vital. The only question is that was he the one who stabbed the mother or was he the third guy who raped Carmela. According to Alfaro, only 3 men entered the Vizconde residence that night who were Webb, Lejano, and Ventura. The rest were outside being a look out. Alfaro said the she heard a loud noise from the tv inside the bedroom and when she peeped slightly through the door, she saw the only picture of the crime scene that she recalls because after that she went out because Webb was staring back at her in a angry mood. She waited outside until the three finally coming out then leaving the Vizconde residence. The lone crime scene that she remembers is that Lejano was standing beside the bed putting on his jacket while the mother and little sister were already dead lying on the bed. She sees Hubert pumping Carmela presumably in a missionary sexual position while Carmela had a pillow case stuffed in her mouth. Carmela was still alive then and was crying. Hubert stared back at her with that drug induced eyes full of lust and anger which prompted Jessica to come out of the house. After that, they all went to another house where they retreated wherein the blaming session took place. Ventura was telling Webb why he killed the little sister. Webb claimed that Jennifer jumped over him and bit him while he was molesting Carmela. This makes sense because Jennifer had the most number of stab wounds totaling to 19. She was the only one who had defensive wounds in her arms which means she was the only one who really fought Webb and his gang. Webb being high on drugs was really mad that Jennifer was not letting him rape Carmela which resulted to Jennifer being stabbed 19 times. I presume then that Webb and Lejano raped Carmela a number of times because Webb went back to Carmela after Lejano’s turn. I’m not so sure about Ventura’s participation in the rape but he may have the hand in killing the mother because Webb took care of Carmela and Jennifer. After the rape, I presume that Webb delivered the finishing blows to Carmela who can’t scream because of the pillow case in her mouth. She had the hardest time among the three because not only was she raped by multiple men but she had to helplessly witness the slaughtering of her mother and little sister.
Now after all these points, I conclude that among all the suspects, Peter Estrada was the one who played the least role in the massacre. Miguel Rodriguez later in 1995 threatened Alfaro not to open her mouth. Mike Gatchalian was the key for the gang to be able to enter in and out of the village of the Vizcondes without being checked by the guards since he also lived there. While Pyke Fernandez was a close ally of Hubert Webb, Peter Estrada seems to me was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. He played the least role in the massacre and turns out to be the reason why it was exposed because it was through him, that Alfaro was able to witness the crime since she is his girlfriend at that time. After all that has been said, I wonder why the Supreme Court acquitted Hubert Webb et. all. WHY?
@Gurman, I am highly amazed with your objective analysis based on the facts as described in the report. While I do not know the Adam’s history of the personalities involved in this horrendous murder case, I find Miss Alfaro a credible witness because of her relationship with Mr. Estrada, familiarity with the gang and she was able to established the MOTIVE for Hubert to kill Carmela. On the other hand, I still believe that the alibi of being in the US as certified by the US State Dept. was based on exit-reentry stamp on Hubert’s passport which can be manipulated by our Immigration Dept. as has been done by Fil-Am senior citizens (a very close relative of mine has done it often)who would like to avoid the penalty of cancelling their US SSI pension while over staying here in our country. As to why the Supreme Court acquitted Hubert, it as simple as the highest bidder in obtaining TRO left and right and flip-flopping on juicy cases.
Damn! It seems to me that I have fooled myself again. I have to correct myself that I’m not a hundred percent sure about Hubert’s guilty verdict because it seems to me that Judge Amelita Tolentino was BIAS all throughout the case. It seemed to me that she had already made up her mind of putting Hubert et. all inside the jail without even giving due process. How can she reject 132 out of the 142 pieces of evidence presented in the court by the defense? One more point I missed before is that all the documents presented by Hubert plus the witnesses that testified point out a picture of his different experiences in the U.S. The things he did there including the people he met are solid proof that he was there. How can all these people lie? It’s hard to imagine that so many people are covering up Hubert Webb. The bicycle store where he bought a Cannondale cycle on June 30, 1991 is another vital proof. And of course all his travel papers are authenticated by U.S. Immigration, Customs, and the FBI. These people can’t be bought that easily. I don’t think Senator Webb has the means to buy these people. These are not Paranaque policemen like Biong is. I watched the documentary of Cheche Lazaro regarding the entire Webb family supporting Hubert. At first, you’ll envy Hubert because of such a family who never ever left him amidst all the trials that occurred to him and you can judge them as bias to their son BUT what if they really knew he is innocent. Ofcourse, every family will be hurt so much that an innocent member of their family was sentenced wrongfully. I don’t know what to say with the rest and frankly I don’t want to presume anymore so that I won’t make a mistake. But the evidence do show that Hubert Webb is innocent.
Another interesting point I discovered was that the theory of the construction workers killing the Vizcondes also carry some weight. These were the people who constructed the house where the killings occurred. They knew that there was no male occupant plus the fingerprint of the Engineer was found in the bulb. That is Engineer Danilo Aguas who headed the workers. Why are these people not investigated thoroughly? I have some doubts now with Jessica Alfaro’s testimony not because she is a drug addict or an NBI informant but because she seems to just adopt the version of an earlier group of suspects which were the Barroso akyat bahay gang. As hard as I can imagine even after reading the entire summary of her testimony which initially told me that she was present in the massacre, it now occurs to me that she just connected the dots that were previously shown by the NBI. It does occur to me then that ALFARO WAS JUST AN ASSET THROUGH AND THROUGH. She was just fed information and miraculously she made it appear to be so damn believable. The rest of the witnesses can also be either paid then or just threatened including the former Webb maids and the BF Homes’ security guards. What the fuck? This case made me question my own judgement which then proves to all of us the saying that “Don’t judge the book by its cover”. Even if Webb et. all were/are drug addicts, we should not treat them as the culprits immediately.
hey gurman :) so glad you’ve come around!
Each time you feel you have come to a conclusion in this case, you discover more and more information which leads again to a different set of theories but I feel I have finally arrived to my one last intuition. After exhausting so many possibilities and scenarios, I feel I have gotten it already. I’ll just make it plain and simple so that it won’t be complicated anymore. I hope all the people here read this cause I really believe this is the closest anyone can get regarding this case.
I’d still say that this is done by spoiled brats of rich and influential families who are drug users. This is NOT robbery or personal grudge. This is a classic COP (Crime Of Passion). This is a product of drugs and jealousy. Like I said earlier, Carmela was the sole target. The Akyat Bahay gang is really immaterial here because these kinds of people just want to rob and won’t go far in stabbing people multiple times and then raping a woman several times as well. It turns out that the NBI made them their first fall guys because of intense media and public pressure which makes it clear that the police are either incompetent in searching the truth or they are just after money. I’d say the NBI is after money here all the way. THE NBI ARE THE ONES WHO MADE THIS A COMPLICATED CASE OTHERWISE THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN SOLVED RIGHT AFTER THE MASSACRE IN 1991 IF THEY ONLY WANTED TO. The case about the Engineer who is Danilo Aguas is also just inserted to add confusion with the already complex case. It was a belief for the police that the Engineer and Estrelita, the mother, had a secret affair while Lauro Vizconde was away. His fingerprint being on the bulb is really NOT an issue because he frequented the area since he was the one in charge of creating it. The theory about the construction workers befriending the Vizconde maids and then committing the massacre is also garbage because if it was really just these people then this would have been solved immediately and the asshole Gerardo Biong need NOT do the cover up. The true culprits are truly influential, no doubt about that. GERARDO BIONG IS REALLY AN ACCESSORY. There is no second thoughts on that as well. Everything he did was just to keep the lid on so that the truth won’t come out. Until now I’d say, he still knows who did this. He is still hiding something until this very day. He is the key in this massacre and definitely NOT Jessica Alfaro. If only he’d spill the beans and open up everything but he is just one hell of a son of a bitch who will do anything for money. Now as we close in and narrow down the set of suspects, we still come down to the group of Hubert Webb. This is the other part which makes it more and more complex. I feel some of them are guilty and some are not.
Now let’s break down this final set of suspects. I feel that the people living the nearest to the Vizconde residence had definitely had a hand on this. The closest person living to the residence was Michael Gatchalian. He was practically the neighbor of the Vizcondes. He definitely had a hand on this. I’m 100 percent sure. The clarifying point is that the personalities involved here have intersecting lines of friendship. They have plenty of common friends. Hubert Webb being a drug user was affiliated with this group BUT I’d still say he was in the U.S. when the massacre occurred. Hubert Webb is out in my list of suspects. He was just targeted by the NBI because of two things. One, it might be because of the drug case his father Senator Webb got involved with by investigating it or two, the usual reason, money! NBI deliberately tried to go after people like Hubert Webb because they feel they can extract money out of them by coming into terms with them in the end. They knew Hubert was innocent. Jessica Alfaro was just called up by the NBI to nail down Hubert specifically. It was a plan to extort money out of Senator Webb. Meanwhile, Alfaro being a girlfriend of Peter Estrada, pointed the rest of the people she feels they can extract more money from regardless if they were in or not during the crime. The key here is to know who Carmela’s boyfriend really is or atleast who was courting her with so much passion. One name popped out in all of my digging in into this case. The name is….. Eduardo “Dong” Villadolid. This guy for me was the one courting Carmela but was rejected eventually. He is also a drug user who came in contact with Mike Gatchalian and Miguel Rodriguez through their common friends during their pot sessions. Gatchalian could have been the link between Carmela and Villadolid because he lived very close to the Vizconde residence. It was said that selling of drugs was a normal thing inside the BF Homes’ village. Now the true witness is Rhoda Pujanes who has migrated already in Australia. She is the real eye witness and NOT Jessica Alfaro. According to her, she saw Villadolid in front of the house before and after the crime. This makes so much sense. This person was never found after the massacre. Guess what? I think this is my last opinion regarding this matter. I hope it made sense.
I can’t believe someone had actually made a funny pernickety joke about this tragic case.
I used to think exactly this way during Philo classes.